To think that a child who has never been camping is not necessarily from a ‘deprived’ background

[Urbandweller]

DD’s school organised a camping trip for Y5. DD is younger and didn’t attend but her class teacher went to chaperone. I was chatting with her about it today and she said she was so glad the school was able to organise the trip as so many of the Y5 kids had never been camping and would never otherwise get the chance to go. It was clear that she felt sorry for the children who hadn’t been before and was shaking her head sorrowfully, saying many of them are the same poor kids who have never been to the beach and this is one of the saddest aspects of deprivation...

AIBU to not see the link between camping and deprivation? We’ve never taken DD because it’s my idea of hell, nothing to do with lack of funds!

Wow. I am so shocked at some of the responses here. 🤯

How did this person end up with so many children that she couldn't support financially and give these basic childhood experiences of travelling a couple of miles to the beach or sleeping in a tent? 8 kids you are saying now? By multiple fathers. Why did she do that to those children? Not an oooopppps that was an accident situation, is it?

Yes it is a horrible situation. I have spent many years in horror at her choices.

Someone asked why a parent wouldn’t just borrow a tent and take their kid camping. I have an example of why. I know plenty more families like hers. Those are what I’d class as deprived.

Well I don't drive so my poor little dc who are entitled to fsm won't be going camping any time soon 🙄

I'd assume the teacher meant any type of holiday.
Me too, I'm not sure why posters aren't getting that? WC deprivation is a world away from many mnetters however it is fact some DC never get any sort of holiday or outing unless the school provides it.
it was clear that she felt sorry for the children who hadn’t been before and was shaking her head sorrowfully, saying many of them are the same poor kids who have never been to the beach and this is one of the saddest aspects of deprivation.
Which is very true and why wouldn't you feel sorry for those DC. Why is unbelievable that poverty and social environments stop many DC having the basic life experiences.
Some of them probably had the best time of their life on the trip.
I see many DC around here whose life is empty and hopeless, the joy school events bring them is priceless and a treasured memory.

Yes, ZZ the example you describe does exist, I've known a few parents that act similarly to your description myself, but absolutely such families are the minority and yes, opportunities such as camping should be directed to them.

But, claiming 'doesn't camp' as an indicator of deprivation or poor parenting really doesn't 'cut it' in the real world, maybe in the microcosm you currently find yourself in, but overall, no.

@TheHateIsNotGood

Yes, ZZ the example you describe does exist, I've known a few parents that act similarly to your description myself, but absolutely such families are the minority and yes, opportunities such as camping should be directed to them.

But, claiming 'doesn't camp' as an indicator of deprivation or poor parenting really doesn't 'cut it' in the real world, maybe in the microcosm you currently find yourself in, but overall, no.

Yes - it was actually the fact that the teacher used the example of never having had a day at a beach that really struck me as more of an indicator.

Holiday Inn and Premier Inn are cheaper than camping. Why on earth would you suffer camping and pay money to do so? There are many cheaper ways to holiday than camping.

A child who has never been on holiday may well be deprived. But a child who have never been camping just has sensible parents.

Ditto - days at the beach, apparently 1 in 10 children in Plymouth haven't been to The Beach. Sounds really bad as an headline, seeing as Plymouth is on the coast, but how many 'beaches' are there in Plymouth? None. Any 'beach' near to Plymouth means transport arrangements that a minority of families have difficulty accessing.

Never mind places like Birmingham that aren't even near the Coast. Then factor in the many families that aren't "deprived" that choose not to go to the beach/camp.

So, the need is not as great as some assume. But yes some children would really benefit from camping and beach trips, we just need to make sure that all resources available are targeted to those children that really need them,

Not a big brush, tick-box exercise that misses the point.

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

How did this person end up with so many children that she couldn't support financially and give these basic childhood experiences of travelling a couple of miles to the beach or sleeping in a tent? 8 kids you are saying now? By multiple fathers. Why did she do that to those children? Not an oooopppps that was an accident situation, is it?

Yes it is a horrible situation. I have spent many years in horror at her choices.

Someone asked why a parent wouldn’t just borrow a tent and take their kid camping. I have an example of why. I know plenty more families like hers. Those are what I’d class as deprived.

Right. So let's be clear, those children are not deprived because of poverty, in most cases. But by "parents" who deliberately have children they cannot provide even basic decent living standards for, let alone trips/ holidays. Why would somebody do that to not one, but SIX children? It's not an accident, six times. With multiple men as you said. Fucking hell. Those poor children having such a selfish mother whp clearly doesn't care about them whatsoever.

That is the problem, you expressed it really well. Nobody can fix that unless you are advocating that social services massively raise the bar and kids like that go into care, or these parents take some fucking responsibility for the children they bring into the world.

You're not talking about sudden tragedy and therefore unexpectedly becoming a single parent in a shit situation, which I'd always have huge sympathy for. What you are describing is somebody who doesn't give a shit about their kids and that is disgusting. The fact you describe someone who treats their children in this way as a friend is disturbing.

Surely the whole point of camping is living a voluntarily deprived lifestyle.

i never went camping either, neither did my parents (though I did once sleep in a tent overnight). People either camp or they don't, I'd hate it. My kids and nephew did it a couple of times but they certainly wouldn't have been deprived had they not.

The teacher is obviously one of those people who consider it an essential rite of passage and does not understand why anyone wouldn't be enthusiastic about it.

I can imagine that some children would find it great fun but it's all a matter of taste.

@Paddling654

Surely the whole point of camping is living a voluntarily deprived lifestyle.

knitnerd90, take a look at this:

www.campingkosher.com/

I don’t live in the UK, but where I live there’s no snobbery about camping being a “budget holiday.” It’s more associated in people’s minds with families enjoying the outdoors together, exercise, introducing kids to nature, and the kind of independence/teamwork skills learned in
scouting. Families who camp would more likely be viewed as having a healthy lifestyle, parents investing quality time with kids, etc. than being less advantaged (I’m not saying camping is the only way to do that). My daughter and I are in fact camping out tomorrow night at our outdoor club. Some of her friends’ parents don’t enjoy it at all and never camp.
If you think all camping equipment is cheap, try visiting a high end sporting or hiking store. It can be cheap, or or it can be very pricey.
The lesson from this thread seems to be not to judge anyone else’s idea of what’s normal or luxurious. Some kids don’t get to spend much time in nature, and activities some people turn their nose up at might be a treat for another’s family.

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

I'm always surprised.how unembarrassed the Mumsnet snob brigade - who are out in force on a camping thread..?! - are.

Yes! I've never seen it before but it is obvious on this thread, sneering at campers being 'middle class' and all that.

Though I don't, and would never, camp, I know loads of people from all walks of life who do enjoy it.

Anyway what is wrong with being middle class (a broad spectrum)? We are what we are.

@Itsmemaggie

I fucking love camping, and have had some amazing experiences where at the end of the day I went and either slept in a tent or stayed out under the stars.

That sounds lovely.

I wouldn't bash camping but I hate the idea of having to share toilet and shower blocks and insects coming into the tent. Also I think I would be nervous and not sleep.

Each to their own.

@speakout

A camping holiday is not cheap. You are being very naiive OP. It requires quite an investment. Taking a family with a couple of young children on a camping holiday takes resources. A car- very hard to take a family of 4 camping on public transport. Tent, sleeping bags, mats, torches, cooking equipment. All very costly. If you are living hand to mouth this is not possible. I grew up in poverty. A camping holiday was a pipe dream.

Well I’ve never had a cat and have taken the family camping by public transport every year for 25 years.

It can be expensive, but it can also be done very cheaply.

Also, decent equipment can be expensive, particularly if you are carrying it all, abs it needs to be light.

But you can build it up little by little, and add to it every year

It’s also worth knowing that many campsites offer huge reductions to families travelling by public transport , and in many cases have special zones for non car drivers, where there is no parking, but the quality of the pitches is much better

*never had a car

@TryingToBeLogical

I don’t live in the UK, but where I live there’s no snobbery about camping being a “budget holiday.” It’s more associated in people’s minds with families enjoying the outdoors together, exercise, introducing kids to nature, and the kind of independence/teamwork skills learned in scouting. Families who camp would more likely be viewed as having a healthy lifestyle, parents investing quality time with kids, etc. than being less advantaged (I’m not saying camping is the only way to do that). My daughter and I are in fact camping out tomorrow night at our outdoor club. Some of her friends’ parents don’t enjoy it at all and never camp. If you think all camping equipment is cheap, try visiting a high end sporting or hiking store. It can be cheap, or or it can be very pricey. The lesson from this thread seems to be not to judge anyone else’s idea of what’s normal or luxurious. Some kids don’t get to spend much time in nature, and activities some people turn their nose up at might be a treat for another’s family.

Good post.

Someone asked why a parent wouldn’t just borrow a tent and take their kid camping. I have an example of why. I know plenty more families like hers. Those are what I’d class as deprived.

That isn't deprived families, though. The kids are deprived, yes. By their parents intentionally creating that situation for them. How awful.

I've worked in poor countries where the parents do everything possible for their children and are torn apart when they can fulfil their responsibilities to them: to provide for them and give them a good childhood.

The idea that somebody in the UK could be so blasé about parenting their own children - with all of the support here that parents in those places do not have - to me is disgusting and indicates a moral vacuum on their part, if they care less for their children and do less for them than people with no welfare, no free healthcare, no free education, etc.

I am repulsed by that people who are among the 1% richest who have ever lived on Earth (whicj easily includes even the poorest on the UK in 2021) can behave like this to their own children. It is shocking and disgraceful and we should not make excuses for it. Ever.

The fact you describe someone who treats their children in this way as a friend is disturbing.

Reread my posts a bit more slowly. She's not a friend. She's a relative. That was literally the first thing I said about her.

I agree that her approach to having and raising children is appalling - I'm not sure where you've got the idea that I don't. You seem to be arguing with things I haven't said.

I wouldnt think it meant every child who has never gone camping is because of deprivation, but that children in deprivation may not get to go camping. I work in a school with many children from low income families (more then 50%). You may be shocked to know that a large amount of those children have barely ever even left their city, and have never been places like camping or to the ocean which is not very far from us.

We spent 4 weeks camping in tents at a beach every summer when I was a kid.
It was mostly fun, it was occasionally hot and stuffy or pouring rain as very wet.
Camping and a month of a long drop toilet has only given me a really low bar of unacceptable facilities, the ability to put up tents quickly, a higher than average ability st lighting fires and I’m really good at sleeping anywhere.

We also went hiking a lot and slept in bivys or huts. I prefer walking all day to a hut than spending all day carrying my stuff to then have to sleep on a barely blown up self inflating “mattress pad” on the ground in a half tent.

Oh god I can't stand all this faux horreur, I need a suite at the Marriot ffs, no camping for little ol me, hell to the no

Get over yourselves.

I can sort of see what the teacher means. A lot of children spend hours every day on phones or gaming.
Camping with no electric hook up is so completely different to their normal life, it certainly can broaden their experience of life hugely.

When I’ve taken children camping ((my own, and foster children) they have enjoyed the experience, but even if they hadn’t, it would have been enriching, widened their education, given them a different perspective, for example on farming, wildlife, basic amenities, etc

And yes, if children aren’t experiencing a range of different perspectives and situations in life, they are growing up narrow minded, and in that sense, deprived