How should I respond to teenage DS?

[Fandangoes]

I am at a loss and would appreciate advice. Had a huge row with DS last night. He has always been a fairly easy kid although always been pretty lazy. He is now 17 and has started to get more difficult. He doesn’t have a lot of chores but I do expect him to keep his bedroom reasonable or not littered with dirty plates and cups, food wrappers etc and I expect him to put his dishes in the dishwasher. I came hone from work last night to dishes all over the side, kitchen worktops smeared with food and crumbs his belongings all over the place etc. I had to ask him 3 times to clear it up. I had asked him to empty the dishwasher whilst I was out at work but apparently it hadn’t washed so he just left it - he said he didn’t know how to turn it on! Anyway things escalated, he started just shouting over me, I asked him to stop doing that but he got really quite aggressive told me to fucking shut up he was sick of listening to me say the same things. I told him not to swear he called me childish they are just words he’ll used them if he wants, he called me a dick and a vile person because I’m always having a go at him etc etc. I tried to stay calm but I did tell him that he could use whatever language he wanted with his friends but I did not want him swearing in front of me and if he could t respect that he could find somewhere else to live as his behaviour was not acceptable. I also told him that from now on he could wash his own clothes, make his own meals, get himself up for work and get the bus because I wasn’t doing anything for him anymore, I had had enough. He just continued to shout at me so I went to bed. I’m not sure how best to handle this. I do end up nagging him because he doesn’t do a thing he is told and it drives me mad. I don’t see why I should have to come home from work to his mess. Any advice on what I do next would be appreciated

Its really difficult. Because it depends what type of person they usually are.

My dbro would have had no remorse and mum only got through to him, by stopping doing anything for him. Backing off and and basically not acknowledging him. Dbro is ok now but he was a complete dick as a teen. During this period, dad backed mum up obviously, and once he tried to physically attack my dad. My dad was a police man and quite quickly put dbro on his arse. He didn't punch him or hurt him, so quickly restrained him, took him to the floor and then let him go. It still upsets dad now if someone mentions it.

Between that incident and mum not doing his washing or cooking & sticking to it, dbro developed some respect for then. Started being a grown up. But then mum was doing his washing even when he had his own house, in his late 20s.

I, on the other hand would have felt absolutely awful. My teen dd (17) is like me. She is has on occasion been vile. But within a few hours is feeling terrible. We both do, but when we have calmed down we can have a proper talk where she can share her feelings calmly. I can share mine and re-establish the rules. Then it's fine for a while. She hasn't done this for ages though, so it's worked long term.

Some teens are far more difficult than others. And my experience is that, boys tend to realise they can be quite intimidating and use that, especiallyagainst their mum.

Not all boys, but alot of them. I have a younger boy and dreading that happening.

My son is like this. Does nothing. I dont tell him to do x y or z anymore because it just highlights that he's not listening. I dont do his washingany more though

Thank you it’s reassuring others are like this. I feel so upset by it. He did something similar for the first time a few weeks ago but eventually apologised and returned to my lovely boy. I am. Not prepared to let him continue leaving a mess everywhere, I can’t live like that (& I’m it overly houseprouud!). He has managed to get himself up for work this morning despite being up t at least 1am slamming doors and making as much noise as possible! I suspect he realised he had no uniform for today and was having to wash something! I will try ignoring him and stop doing anything for him and see where we get! It’s a horrible way to live though! I would much rather we just got along and both do things to help each other!!

You don't have to stop doing things forever, just long enough for him to show some respect and realise your serious.

I have a DS (21) and did the same. I found 16-18 particularly challenging but they do come through it.

Firstly change that WiFi password.

I think your right to take a stand. He needs to learn everything you do for him. I would say if he wants to be treated like an adult then he needs to act like one and do his own shit from now on, even if it means your house becomes a pig sty for the next month whilst you only do your own stuff

I think you have to decide on the minimum you can live with , sad to not have high expectations but I can't nag everyday as I would be as miserable as them. I empty the dishwasher every morning so everyone can just put their pots away in there during the day. I only wash clothes brought down stairs or hang out if they put it on to wash. I no longer cook for everyone as I didn't know who was going to be in but have food in they can easily cook. If they left stuff around I would bundle in together in a basket or box and leave it in a corner or shove it in their door. I try not to ho in their rooms. I once dumped my sons wet washing on the floor rather than hang it out as he did that to ours but only had to do it once and he got the message. I also think it is fine to interact minimally with someone who is unkind to you but be ready to move on once things improve a bit.

That’s what I have been trying to do Sleepingdogs12 but he won’t even put his pots in an empty dishwasher. He either leaves them in his room or on the side in the kitchen or in whatever room he was eating / drinking! I’ve tried saying he’s not allowed food and drink in his room he just ignores me. It’s exhausting. I really shouldn’t have threatened to throw him out but he was just shouting over the top of me saying he didn’t want to listen, telling me to shut up and swearing.

I'd be telling him to move out if he cannot behave or show some respect.

Bloody teens

Your mistake was going from 'tidy up' to 'you can find somewhere else to live' in one argument-easily done I know!

Avoid arguments at all costs at this age as you will always be seen as the bad guy and your blood pressure will suffer! If the chores aren't done then just turn the wifi off/change Netflix password or whatever- don't explain why just wait until he realises and comes running to you with his little bewildered face as he can't access it

I know all this as ds is 20, we're out the other side at last! He had his stroppy teen years from 17-19 and it was all directed at me. Challenging to say the least.

Oh and ime they feel pretty shit with themselves when they've been a twat/sworn at their mums so try and get past that if you can.

It gets better

Sounds a bit like my youngest although he was slightly less volatile.

the dishwasher episode in particular, just so bloody literal and downright lazy.

I treated him like a lodger...total disengagement,, no family chitchat or pleasantries. Polite information only exchanges..."the kettle has boiled if you want a cuppa" "washing machine is empty if you have laundry" "Cooking xyz for tonight, will you want some?" "Tea is ready in ten minutes" ...you get the idea.

IME any attempt at nice/conversation/being helpful is just regarded as interference and mollycoddling and makes them defensive, it takes a while for them to realise that having to do it all themselves is a fucking bore and that parents are helping, have a whole lifetime more of experience and on the whole are actually decent people and that a little cooperation goes a long long way!

I really shouldn’t have threatened to throw him out but he was just shouting over the top of me saying he didn’t want to listen, telling me to shut up and swearing

The second anything like that starts walk away, when that is going on it's not the time to start talking about showing respect etc,it'll fall on deaf ears.

Wifi password. Do it. And then keep changing it as necessary.

His behaviour is completely unacceptable. Not least because he is a man shouting and swearing and intimidating a woman. Explain that bit to him. Is that who he wants to be? In a few years that will be his girlfriend or wife he's bullying.

Don't let this slide, OP. You are right to pull him up on it.

I agree with Farwest, don't lest it slide but have the chat about intimidating women etc when you're calm and not in the heat of things.

Ds was very volatile, he'd blow up over nothing . 2 years at uni and he's like a changed person. So even if your ds is behaving like this now it doesn't mean he'll carry on.

I have changed the wifi password before but he is more tech savvy than me and then none of my things work like the tv or my Alexa or we’ll just anything!! And it was me suffering more than him!!! Also the electricity fuse box is in his bedroom so he has turned the power off on me before now!!

Well I think not slightly depends where he is education wise but it might well be an idea for him to start looking at moving out. Once he looks at prices and budgets he might wise up.

Get him to write a budget and see what he can afford. Then it's his choice. Your house your rules his house his rules.

But in the meantime he can do his own shit. All of it.

Cook for the family when it's his turn (we started that when the kids were about 13/14). Otherwise everyone does they're own washing and cleaning. Chips in with general cleaning or whatever they're asked to do. It's a question of habit for them.

Does he work or do you give him an allowance?

My 17 is not like this admittedly because Dh and I just wouldn't tolerate it. But he swore at me once and Dh went mad and calmly told him if it happened again he'd be out the door.

When things are calmer I feel you should discuss his aggression towards you.
You maybe his parent but being aggressive towards a woman is never acceptable. He needs to understand that.

Teenage years are awkward. They've been the child for so long that the realisation they are not going to be a child much longer is sometimes a bit hard to handle.

Stick to your guns about not doing things for him.

Oh I have been there although my DS wouldn’t dare swear at me like that.

Usually with me I ask and nag and insist and eventually I lose my shit and he knows he’s pushed too far.

I got to the point of not going on about his bedroom any more, but telling him that if he was going to continually take food up to his bedroom then I simply would stop buying it and he’d be limited to the 3 meals a day he gets at home, any more and he can find a job to buy it.

And once I lost it and told him that maybe he should move in with his dad, because he would never get away with living like that there, there are 4 of them already and with him would be 5 so there just wouldn’t be the ability to treat the house like a hotel, whereas because it’s just me and him it’s easier.

I agree re walking away although it can be bloody hard not to bite back. But invariably if I don’t engage and walk away he will be the one to come to me first.

Once I’ve lost it he knows that I will calm down and we’ll have a rational discussion.

Thing is he’s a good kid other than that which is probably why this is so much more frustrating.

Yes, as above. I think 16-18 is the worst stage.DS21 still leaves glasses and plates upstairs but only after toast etc, nothing vile, and he brings them down without complaining when I remind him. He’s just left to start his placement year and I know his room will be a bit of a tip but he has washed my car and does not speak to us like that. We had one or two outbursts at 17 or so but I dealt with it by stopping buying his treats, stopping doing his laundry etc. He got the message.

It's just normal behaviour, you have to try to accept that it will be like this for a while before he eventually grows out of it. He's 17, so soon he will either have to get or job or go to university, and whichever the case may be it will force him to grow up.

At the present time he's in that stage where he is no longer a child but equally has several years before he becomes an adult.

We shouldn't be surprised that older teenagers behave like this; for most of our history people of his age would have been working and fighting to survive for several years. They'd almost have children of their own. Society now doesn't allow children to grow into proper adults until their late 20s - homeownership, secure jobs, a family of their own, all things that have to wait.

Like with most problems, the solution is to leave it and wait for it to go away on it's own.

Also switching off the WiFi password is pointless here as he has enough data on his phone contract that he can manage without WiFi. So I have threatened to cancel his phone contract instead.

I don't think changing the wifi password is helpful ar this age, it just escalates things. You said youd leave him to do his own washing and cooking so now do it. Re engage him about leaving a mess when he's calmed down.

I can kind of see his point if view. For years you were happy with him doing jack shit and now, suddenly, you are constantly on at him (I can see your pov too obv). So he's going to find the new normal a bit of a shock. Much harder to teach skills at 17 than 12 or 10, cause they are indolent fuckers at that age.

Fuck that if he has been switching off your electricity that you work and pay for. Entitled little brat.

Get his bag packed, tell him to go and remind him that since he won't be living with you he will now have to do ALL jobs for himself.

I think that would shock him enough to buck up his ideas and when he starts looking at rent prices I'm sure that'll open his eyes.