30 minutes to negotiate with the GP receptionist for a phone appointment

[Gakatsbsk]

Hi,

I am an nhs nurse, and so I realise this is not all GP receptionists but I have just spent 30 minutes speaking to a GP receptionist to try and negotiate a GP over the phone appointment.

It seemed to me like I was wading through excuse after excuse, in a hospital none of these excuses would wash.

The first excuse was that despite registering five weeks ago they didn’t have my medical records (I’ve moved between UK nations) and ‘there was no possible way’ to determine what previous medications I was on, my suggestion that they could be confirmed with me, the patient was of course completely ridiculous and I could be maliciously seeking meds (which are non opioid, non addictive and not remotely interesting to any one).

The second excuse was that I couldn’t have a GP appointment because I’d not had a GP appointment there yet and ✨ covid ✨. In secondary care we haven’t been able to use covid as a reason to not see any new patients, and of course how can I have had an appointment without having an appointment.

The third excuse was an altered replay of the first one, that doctor won’t be able to prepare for your consultation without your medical records. Doctors do this day in day out.

The fourth excuse was a lecture about how busy the nhs is, how covid is surging at our local hospital and how there’s so many covid patients in critical care. At this point I told her I work as a staff nurse in critical care at said hospital, and that this conversation was dragging on and could I please be given a GP appointment, or ANP appointment, or do I need to register elsewhere. At this point I was granted a phone appointment (anytime until 8pm so don’t go anywhere was the warning).

I do realise our colleagues in primary care are stretched, as we in secondary care are but this was ridiculous and it saddens me that vulnerable people probably miss out on health services because of attitudes like this. If I spoke to anyone on the phone in my job role the way she did, I’d end up facing disciplinary action if the other party complained.

Is it just me being completely unreasonable ?

Many thanks

It's a nice tight Parker231 but I don't see it happening.

Either HMG completely misunderstands how much they get from primary care for their £150 or they're trying to break it. I still can't work out which. Ironic, because the covid vaccination rollout they keep crowing about was mainly delivered by this mechanism.

I think we're past the point of no return personally and would like an Australian style PAYG system with appropriate safeguards for people on low incomes. Much better - Doctors and Patients can choose who to see and money follows the patient.

At the very least people like Xenia should be able to opt out of NHS GP care completely - IE get their £150 back but then no access to any NHS Primary Care.

That should be "nice idea!"

Totally off topic, but how do these systems
Link up medical records? So if you were treated privately for diabetes, but had a traffic accident and were treated by a and e, how would the a and e know about the private medical files? Is that not a reason for trying to keep a centralised nhs?
(Never used private healthcare so I’ve no idea how it works).

Whenever we have used private healthcare over the last 60 years your GP is informed and also usually refers you to the private provider so they are in the loop.

@Xenia thank you, no reason to think that system would change then.

@privateandnhsgp - I know! Government hasn’t said yet where the money is coming from to reduce the waiting lists they have promised although where they think the additional staff will come from is another question. The government have failed to recruit the additional doctors, nurses and other support roles.

This was reported in the FT today - would be promising if it actually happens.

UK chancellor Rishi Sunak is drawing up tax-raising options including a new “social solidarity” levy that could fund clearance of the post-Covid NHS treatment backlog and long-term reforms to social care in England.

Prime minister Boris Johnson hopes to announce a plan for social care before MPs depart on their summer holidays later this month, with one government official saying it was “50-50” whether he could strike a deal with his chancellor in time.

Sunak has made it clear any long-term solution for England’s creaking social care system would require “sustainable funding” — in other words a tax rise — and officials say Johnson is grudgingly coming around to the idea.

Part of the problem IMO is that whenever privatisation is mentioned, everyone immediately thinks of the American system. I have lived and worked in USA (in a private hospital) and the system is very expensive and rationed to the rich and the employed. The care is extremely variable.
I have friends (some of whom are GPs here) and relatives in France who all tell me the system there is extremely good, so I think we should look at European systems and consider something like that.
I set up and ran a community system in a rural area in the UK, bringing management of chronic conditions into general practice. The patients absolutely loved it, the GPs loved it. However, the CCG wanted to reduce the costs and transferred it to the already struggling community nursing service, none of whom had any training or experience. Within a few weeks it had descended into chaos and patients were having to traipse back to hospital clinics, using non existent public transport and waiting hours to be seen.
The one GP practice that went over to Virgin Medical fell apart just a few weeks in.
The French system is based on state organisation and co-ordination, with financial contributions based on earnings. Apart from what I see as an unreasonable focus on homeopathy, it seems to work well, with a lot of services run by specialist nurses - smear tests, contraception etc, all with direct access and online booking via a central system. there is virtually no waiting for scans, Xrays etc. Often done in the same building as the GP clinic.
There are options that could offer a better service. The NHS shouldn't be a sacred cow.

I saw that too (FT article). However whenever they try these things including Mrs May's dementia tax, it is so hard to agree they seem to give up. Most older people do not need social care so most are not keen on extra tax to pay for it when families could instead do more. I would rather we just had much less tax and much less state provision all round.

I would rather we just had much less tax and much less state provision all round.

So how would you fund things like essential health and social care for those who simply do not have the means to fund it themselves?

@xenia. How much more are families supposed to do. What about if you don’t have any family? Nor have an income in your senior year equivalent to £1k per week?

@Gakatsbsk

Hi,

I am an nhs nurse, and so I realise this is not all GP receptionists but I have just spent 30 minutes speaking to a GP receptionist to try and negotiate a GP over the phone appointment.

It seemed to me like I was wading through excuse after excuse, in a hospital none of these excuses would wash.

The first excuse was that despite registering five weeks ago they didn’t have my medical records (I’ve moved between UK nations) and ‘there was no possible way’ to determine what previous medications I was on, my suggestion that they could be confirmed with me, the patient was of course completely ridiculous and I could be maliciously seeking meds (which are non opioid, non addictive and not remotely interesting to any one).

The second excuse was that I couldn’t have a GP appointment because I’d not had a GP appointment there yet and ✨ covid ✨. In secondary care we haven’t been able to use covid as a reason to not see any new patients, and of course how can I have had an appointment without having an appointment.

The third excuse was an altered replay of the first one, that doctor won’t be able to prepare for your consultation without your medical records. Doctors do this day in day out.

The fourth excuse was a lecture about how busy the nhs is, how covid is surging at our local hospital and how there’s so many covid patients in critical care. At this point I told her I work as a staff nurse in critical care at said hospital, and that this conversation was dragging on and could I please be given a GP appointment, or ANP appointment, or do I need to register elsewhere. At this point I was granted a phone appointment (anytime until 8pm so don’t go anywhere was the warning).

I do realise our colleagues in primary care are stretched, as we in secondary care are but this was ridiculous and it saddens me that vulnerable people probably miss out on health services because of attitudes like this. If I spoke to anyone on the phone in my job role the way she did, I’d end up facing disciplinary action if the other party complained.

Is it just me being completely unreasonable ?

Many thanks

Our GP surgery ha vastly improved over the last 5-6 weeks and I no longer need to battle to get my twins seen when they’re poorly (had 4 GP appointments and a trip to A&E via 111 over a 4 weeks period between the two of them before we finally got some semblance of a diagnosis - although still ‘it’s a virus’ at least now it’s a named virus which means their symptoms all make sense!!)

However, I was referred to the hospital back in the winter, within a week I received a letter telling me there were no appointments for new patients and I was being placed in a holding list until such time as they reopened the lists. I am still waiting 6 months on and there’s no communication with the department, try calling their secretaries and get a phone message that says please don’t call us, do not attempt to leave a message and do not ask your gp to try and contact us 🤬😱 Also tried general appointments line and got told they don’t deal with that department and have to speak to them directly. No way to email or otherwise find out why is going on.

I’m not quite sure when they’ll actually start seeing people given another department, at the same hospital, received a referral around the same time for something different and I was seen 2 months ago!!

One of my twins was seen July last year and we were told they’d review him in January, I got a phone call this week asking if the problem has resolved itself and can they take us off the list for an appointment as it’s rather full and they’re hoping to remove as many children as they can!!

To me it’s the hospital in this area that is failing patients at the moment.

I would be ok with more tax if the NHS could be funded properly. More services are needed not less.

It is always worth writing an old fashioned letter and posting it to the secretary of the consultant concerned. Or, if no named consultant, post it to PALS and ask them to follow up.

@Parker231. Agree. But I fear they will just buy some more art work that’s supposed to do the job.

'try calling their secretaries and get a phone message that says please don’t call us, do not attempt to leave a message and do not ask your gp to try and contact us'

What an utterly disgraceful way to treat patients / parents. I work for the NHS and am fully aware of the lack of staff and resources, and how badly the whole service was on its knees, even before Covid. I would also be the first to say that some patients are an absolute pain in the butt who can be rude, unreasonable and demanding. However, this attitude that patients are nothing but an inconvenience, and must know their place, and how dare they expect appointments or even INFORMATION, simply is not good enough, and it has to end

When I changed surgeries, I filled a form out, handed it to them and was immediately offered an appointment the following week. It was pre Covid of course, but further proves that receptionist wrong about them not being able to see you without your medication history.

Also, how do they think Emergency/out of hours docs manage?! Every time I've seen one, I've had to list my medication to them!

The GP could get your drug history from various sources (summary care records, the pharmacy you have been using, even your empty containers) emailing your old gp but this would require the receptionist doing some work

I thought of this thread this morning.

Dh is allergic to bites and was badly bitten 5x on Sunday. Antihistamines and creams made no difference and today it is so swollen he can barely walk. Obviously needs antibiotics.

Rang the GP, over 20 mins on the phone and all appts gone and couldn't see a nurse either. Explained the situation, still no joy. Was told to ring 111 or see a pharmacist. Bearing in mind this was all before 9am,not exactly late in the day.

Pharmacist took one look and said it needs antibiotics asap and don't wait.

So he spent 3 hours waiting for antibiotics in A and E. He was also asked who his doctor was and why they wouldn't see him

Your GP couldn’t see him because other patients had been given the appointments.

I wish people would understand a GP can’t see everyone - if someone else has the appointment, you will have to wait until one is free.

Parker231 I do realise that, but when the only alternative is A and E as no appts can be given for weeks on end no guarantee of an emergency appt tomorrow either patients quite rightly get frustrated,it's a total waste of A and E's time.

I hope we get to a place whee pharmacists can prescribe as they do in Europe.

I didn't bother even trying to get an appointment for DH when his leg swelled up, I took him straight to A&E. The walk in centre here is a joke so there was no other option. It's not right but what else can you do when you can't get an appointment and it's not possible to wait?

There are too many people. We have 17m more than when I was born in this country (and I accept my having children is part of the problem). We have at least 5.6m from the EU not "the three million" the 3m organisation even thought there were. We are bursting at the seams. I would rather we have much less money and many fewer people (as would the planet). I am certainly not against having a basic NHS however and have never said so.

@Parker231

Your GP couldn’t see him because other patients had been given the appointments. I wish people would understand a GP can’t see everyone - if someone else has the appointment, you will have to wait until one is free.

Going back several years I saw a GP with an issue that he said needed to be checked on in a week. He told me to make an appointment for a weeks time on my way out - I said “are you sure I’ll be able to get one? I waited two weeks for this one”. He expressed surprise and said “just tell them that I said you were to have an appointment I can see I’ve got plenty of slots available”

I duly told reception that I needed an appointment the next week and was told “no you’ll have to call on the morning”. I said “Dr says he needs to see me” “well he doesn’t have any appointments - you have to call and you’ll get an appointment if it’s considered necessary”.

Dr then came out of his consulting room and asked why I hadn’t been given an appointment. He turned the screen and said “I can see that you have only given out three appointments for the whole of [seven days time] - give Mrs BuggerOff an appointment”.

Another time I was seeing the nurse to have a dressing changed and mentioned how difficult it had been to get an appointment and she said that “most of the time I’m twiddling my fingers, none of us can understand why we have so many empty slots”.

I don’t blame the medical professionals just the ones who THINK they are medical professionals because of where they work. I work in a school but I don’t think I’m a teacher why do GP receptionists think they can’t decide whether or not someone needs medical assistance?

It's bloody ridiculous at our GP surgery too. My son has always told me when he needs his meds and I've been able to order them online on my log in. When he turned 16 they just deleted him from my log in. No warning at all. They explained they could give him a new log in but had to see him in person, which is fine but he's away at boarding school and his meds would run out the day he comes home. They can't give me an appointment for the day he comes home and are told to ring 111 and they'll give us an emergency prescription and email it to our local pharmacy.

He spent 40 minutes on the phone to 111 explaining he needs his meds (asthma, allergies and has an over active immune system) they then say they'll call back, 2 days later, they do but for a consult and they don't agree with one of his meds which a specialist has put him on so don't issue a prescription, again someone will call back, another 24 hours and someone calls back to say they are happy for him to have his meds but the person who phoned isn't authorised to prescribe one of the drugs so again someone will call back. No call.

We paid for a private GP appointment the day he came home and they prescribed his meds there and then, which was a relief as he was struggling to breathe by then.

Makes you wonder who agrees to these contracts with the utter wastes of spaces which provide the 111 service, the time and money this little debacle would cost alone was probably countless times more than the private appointment and prescription cost.