30 minutes to negotiate with the GP receptionist for a phone appointment

[Gakatsbsk]

Hi,

I am an nhs nurse, and so I realise this is not all GP receptionists but I have just spent 30 minutes speaking to a GP receptionist to try and negotiate a GP over the phone appointment.

It seemed to me like I was wading through excuse after excuse, in a hospital none of these excuses would wash.

The first excuse was that despite registering five weeks ago they didn’t have my medical records (I’ve moved between UK nations) and ‘there was no possible way’ to determine what previous medications I was on, my suggestion that they could be confirmed with me, the patient was of course completely ridiculous and I could be maliciously seeking meds (which are non opioid, non addictive and not remotely interesting to any one).

The second excuse was that I couldn’t have a GP appointment because I’d not had a GP appointment there yet and ✨ covid ✨. In secondary care we haven’t been able to use covid as a reason to not see any new patients, and of course how can I have had an appointment without having an appointment.

The third excuse was an altered replay of the first one, that doctor won’t be able to prepare for your consultation without your medical records. Doctors do this day in day out.

The fourth excuse was a lecture about how busy the nhs is, how covid is surging at our local hospital and how there’s so many covid patients in critical care. At this point I told her I work as a staff nurse in critical care at said hospital, and that this conversation was dragging on and could I please be given a GP appointment, or ANP appointment, or do I need to register elsewhere. At this point I was granted a phone appointment (anytime until 8pm so don’t go anywhere was the warning).

I do realise our colleagues in primary care are stretched, as we in secondary care are but this was ridiculous and it saddens me that vulnerable people probably miss out on health services because of attitudes like this. If I spoke to anyone on the phone in my job role the way she did, I’d end up facing disciplinary action if the other party complained.

Is it just me being completely unreasonable ?

Many thanks

I wouldn’t let this go. Write what you wrote in your GP to the Practice Manager, or the GO herself if there isn’t one.

Think of it as fighting not just for yourself but also for the vulnerable and those who are afraid/incapable of speaking up for themselves.

However, I think it’s also good practice to request one’s medical records prior to changing surgeries. In fact I make a point of doing so after each major medical/surgical event.

I had this last year with my gp. High risk pregnancy and I kept collapsing. Midwife got me an appointment to have bloods done to see if I was anaemic as the hospital were only checking my BP and glucose for some reason. From having the results back it took a gp 3 days to get back to me to tell me that I was indeed severely anaemic and wrote a script for my tablets and injections which he then took home instead of sending to the pharmacy. 2 more days till the pharmacy had my script but then they needed to order the meds and then I had to wait a further 4 days to get my first injection of b12. All in all it took 2 weeks more than it should have.
I ended up collapsing again and couldn't catch my breath so ened up I a and e, where I was told that I should have been sent straight to the hospital by the gp as I had next to no iron or b12 in my body and needed an infusion because both me and my baby were massively at risk.
Complained to the gp practice and all I got was "Covid" as the reason for the major series of fuck ups

Don't bother complaining to the Practice Manager - as I learnt yesterday, unless you have a recording of the call or somebody else happened to over-hear, there's no evidence so they side with their own staff member and just claim "no evidence to substantiate the complaint".

The question is, why are GP surgeries still like forts? They've had over a year to find a different-but-patient-centric way of working, and yet some (such as the OPs and mine) continue to use Covid as the excuse for not providing any kind of primary care service. Minimal face to face appointments; no timed telephone appointments (please make yourself available all day); discontinued e-capabilities. It's as though they have relished the opportunity to introduce even more obstacles.

@igotdemons and the other part of this is, even if you had been covid positive, that doesn’t mean you didn’t require treatment.

@LittleOwl153

This sounds much better. At the very least a triage by registered health care professional would be better.

I no longer live in England, but the whole CCG and urgent care thing sounds an equal mess

What a waste of time all round, I'm not surprised though.

Shouldn't they be contacting previous GP for patient summary or chase up missing notes and they usually can see someone registered elsewhere as temporary patient so presumably wouldn't have full notes then.

We can book but it's usually 3wk away and I hate the appointment lottery call at 8am they've usually all gone within 15 mins. They have a phone queue system now at least so don't have to keep redialing but even later during day it can take absolutely ages to get through.

I actually don't mind having phone appointments but wish it worked more like when you go in person with a time which may end up 45min late, but with our GP its not even 2hr slot it's morning/afternoon or whenever they get round to it so it's very difficult even if WFH to be constantly waiting so you don't miss the call.

And also, people who are not a nurse would not have gotten as far as.you with that receptionist, it sounds from you op that she gave the appointment once you advised who you were.

And what a waste of time, she spent 30 mins arguing!

I don't understand how they can be so vague with their timings. Surely they have x amount of slots which all last the same time so if each slot is say ten minutes you are person number 13 and the surgery opens at 9 just say " you are booked in for 11.10 please keep your phone free from 10.30 onwards."

Even sodding yodel and hermes can give you at two hour slot!

I'm lucky because I wfh. How are people like teachers or police officers ever supposed to get an appointment! They can't just keep their phone on and be free to answer all day!

Ridiculous. How are yohnsupposedntonget your regular ezsential (even if they are boring) medicines prescribed?

Agree with every word.
It annoys the absolute fuck out of me how difficult it is to get an appointment. Mine only book for a week so everything is booked by 10am on Monday. Unwell on Tuesday? Tough shit.

They posted on their FB page that you can register online to book appointments, no need to call. Except of course you can’t because you have to take ID to the surgery and that’s not allowed.
I worry about the people who don’t want to make a fuss, can’t navigate the online systems, can’t sit on the phone for an hour at 8am, have taken months to summon up the courage to see the GP and get put off.

It’s disgraceful.

I don't think it's doctors trying to get out of working. I don't know but I think it's a structural thing intended to make us all so frustrated we feel better about having to access services privately. My GPs website has a lot of links to online services that you pay for.

@Doodle2021 so sorry to hear about your experience, chest infections can be really serious (I’ve looked after many patients with them) and so should absolutely be dealt with.

@FlowerArranger thanks for your reply, I am considering lodging a complaint with the practice manager. I do have a copy of my medical records, but the GP surgery claim they have to get their own copy. They accepted my childhood immunisation history and nothing else.

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue it’s really poor, and reflects badly on the whole health service, when we in secondary care aren’t allowed and wouldn’t dare to be as obstructive

I tried for weeks to get through and get an appointment. Eventually got one, and the GP I saw was lovely. I had an untreated UTI.. I'm also neutropenic so it wasn't great that it was untreated for so long

If you manage to get past the receptionist you still have to battle with the GP.
A few weeks ago I got a telephone appointment about my son and I was convinced he had an ear infection (my older children suffer frequently with bad ears so I know the signs). The GP told me it didn't sound like an ear infection and did I really want to drag my baby down to the surgery. On and on for at least 5 minutes
In the end I said yes I want him seen today by a doctor.
GP wasn't happy but it was an ear infection and he needed antibiotics. Just the last in a long line of rubbish care. Considering moving but tbh I think they're all the same round here

@ThePlantsitter

I completely agree!

I love the automated system at our surgery. If I were in your shoes, as I'm autistic, I'd end up getting stressed and angry.

Dentist here. We see most of our genuine emergencies within 24 hours, our regular patients (albeit long waiting times for routine appointments) and also anyone from 111 within 24 hours as well.

We are knackered and sick to the eyeballs with the extra protocols but we also know that little issues are best dealt with sooner before they become big issues as they have done during lockdown.

YANBU

@Rosebel

Sorry to hear about your poor care

I speak with and negotiate with doctors on a daily basis at work, but even I have to be very very direct with GPs and tell them what it is I expect. I have doctor colleagues who tell me the same

@CommanderBurnham

Thanks for your reply and for your work. I wish I could say the end was in sight, but I don’t think it is. x

Ours is a nightmare to get through.you have to ring at 8am for the mornings appointments,usually when you eventually get through they've gone and you can't book pm ones until 12pm 🤔 so it means ringing back.

I've found a sneaky way to get through though.I don't press the option for appointments anymore I press the general query/put through to reception one and someone answers straight away.I feign surprise that I've pressed the wrong button.

Needs must.

I’ve just spoken to one of my friends who is an A&E nurse and whose partner is a paramedic. She told me that each of them have spent time on the phone to GP surgeries trying and failing to get appointments for their patients who have ended up resorting to seeing them. It’s terrible

@Gakatsbsk

Thank you too

We are at breaking point. Highest ever coronavirus absence in staff. I'm working double hours and have had to cancel whole lists due to staff shortages. Public has lost its patience and goodwill.

A lot of self neglect leading to deterioration.

I'm with one GP practice and my dc with another. Both are functioning pretty much normally and have been consulting and seeing patients throughout the pandemic. If anything they are better because they are now using e-consulting. So not all GP practices are like yours.

Ours use an online system to request appointments and they work very well. I had a same day video call when dc had chicken pox in the middle of the first Covid wave to confirm the diagnosis. I personally have had 2 telephone appointments for mental health symptoms and been prescribed anxiety medication.

A big problem with GPS is that they are essentially private companies who contract with a local NHS organisation to provide GP services and some do this much much better than others. As with much of the NHS there is such a huge staff shortage that the staff that are there tend to get away with poor performance more than they would if there were more alternatives.

If your GP is providing an inadequate service you need to complain to PALS and/or your local CCG (clinical commissioning group) and also your MP.

It’s terrible and I’m not quite sure how it’s got to this point without returning back to some sort of normality. Completely understand that telephone appointments can work for a lot of people and easier than having to attend the surgery. But there are a large group of vulnerable people who have been left to just deal with things. Not everybody has the fight in them to get an appointment. A+E departments are struggling under the weight of patients, most of whom could have been dealt with by their GP. What could be sorted in a 10 min appointment now results in a 4+ hour wait. Terrible service.

@cloudsinjuly

Thanks for your reply. I’m very glad your GP service seems to be providing services normally. The nation of the UK I am in hasn’t fallen as far as CCGs yet, but I am looking into complaining if things don’t resolve

@Emmacb82 I agree, and this is what my A&E nurse friend also said