Letting someone fail at work - aibu to let it happen?

[MrsBede]

In brief, I have a deputy who has failed to perform since appointment. I have followed all procedures to deal with this but my organisation is poorly led and I have limited support from those above - eg I should have a line manager but the post is vacant. We're public sector.

A senior manager has now told me my deputy needs to be given a project to lead on and when it flops it will be the point at which the lack of performance is finally dealt with. It's horrible, but the team and our clients are being detrimentally affected by this person's lack of competence so it has to happen - I've tried so much to bring them on but they just haven't responded.

So the project has been explained to them and they have got started. There are already issues becoming apparent but they have now sent me details of their next steps and it's really poor. Do I intervene or just let it play out? It will be a fuck up (not dangerous or anything) and should bring things to a head, but what if they come back and say they ran it past me first and I didn't voice concerns?

My problem is lack of support from above but there is none, so MN - please help!

How long has this been going on OP and when did you realise they were so poor?

And what level are they and you in the organisation?

I think you probably need some support in effective performance management. You say they don't listen to feedback, that's not a reason not to send it. It all sounds very unprofessional to be honest, and getting involved you're likely to get burnt.

I now have the good fortune of working for the second time in a workplace where I know I am supported by my colleagues and managers, and helped to succeed. To be in a collegiate, happy and supportive environment where you know your manager has your back, and you do what you can in return to support your colleagues, the workplace objectives and your managers work also - is a wonderful thing. I enjoy my work and it is a joy to attend now.

To set someone up to fail, and not assist them to succeed when they have especially asked for it, is disgraceful. It reminds me of some of my prior public sector roles with 2 nasty bullies in a really lousy working environment. You should be supporting this staff member not setting her up to fail.

@MrsBede You need support from above. You are being left to do the work that no-one else is willing to do and giving everyone higher up the chain and in HR plausible deniability. I will say honestly that if you don't get more support and back up you would be better off leaving. Your own mental health is already suffering. It will not get better as long as you are tackling this alone .

Couldn't you use the fact you had to give so much feedback and input as evidence of the lack of competence? Something along the lines that you would not expect to have had so much input for someone at her level. That way you can help the project succeed but still hold them accountable for their lack of ability?

You and your colleague are both victims of shit management. If i was in your situatiin id be asking whoi was reporting to, ccing HR, and having a mediation meeting, formally noted by a third party on next steps to deal with capability. Like fuck would i be dealing woth poor perfornance without proper suppirt, its a nightmare at the best of times, never mind your circumstances in your DIS-Organisation.

I think there's more to this.

Employee saying can't do right for doing wrong means you're inconsistent in your managing of them.... This is coming back to bite you for sure.

OP I have read your posts but not whole thread.

I couldn't do what you are doing, personally, I would want things to be transparent with the employee, which would have the same effect or better. Then if they sent you emails you could then respond with "this is your project and is a test, as discussed - any problems take them to [senior manager]."

Then again, I couldn't work in the public sector for exactly this reason - I have done a short secondment in the public sector and I found these management problems were rife and very stressful compared to my private sector role.

If you feel you have no choice, you can cover your back by checking back regularly with senior manager and the HR rep at the meeting you had. You can forward and copy every email to them, or blind copy. You can check with them eg "I am not responding because you suggested that I leave x to make mistakes but if you want me to supervise them or respond to them in any other way let me know" - or words to that effect.

No way would I treat another human being like this. Ever.

Poor recruiting, poor internal processes, and ready to drop someone from a height

• really ?

I hope your colleague is busy getting themselves a better job.

A friend of mine did this with a bad performer in her team. But she held regular reviews, fed back in writing and supported her.

@MrsBede

Yes, I know you're all right. The problem is much of what people are advising is out of my control. Eg -making sure capability is done properly - I have tried this and done my bits properly but as soon as it gets higher it goes nowhere and we're stuck in a loop. Last time there was a performance review the person was off sick so it wasn't done properly, but issues are not a surprise to them - far from it. And far from doing nothing to support them I have spent hours and hours supporting - to the detriment of my own family life as I am effectively doing two jobs and providing support. The morale of the team is also being damaged as people see this person doing less than them and being paid more. It's not just incompetence but lies and now rudeness and defensiveness as well.

It's a total nightmare .

But isn't it your job to manage the performance review process? Where is it falling down?

Your last post indicates a breakdown in the relationship with your Deputy. If they have been through Capability twice it's not surprising they are being defensive about performance issues now, justified as the feedback may be.

Have they got more than 2 years service? Because if yes they can make an unfair dismissal claim to a Tribunal and as the direct line manager you would be dragged into it. So if the intention from higher up is to to use failure on this project to get rid of the Deputy you must protect yourself. And that means doing the right thing in terms of advice and feedback to this person on how to approach this project. At least that way if they ignore you there is a record of what you did to support them.

Have you tried talking to HR (someone fairly senior, ideally not involved in he earlier capability) to get some advice? Don't necessarily blame them for the previous processes falling over -it may be they advised the senior manager what to do and got ignored. It happens.....

It does sound like with no direct manger of your own you are in the proverbial rock and hard place. As you may have guessed I work in HR and have some knowledge of public sector processes - PM me if you would like more advice via email.

@Anon987654

I think there's more to this.

Employee saying can't do right for doing wrong means you're inconsistent in your managing of them.... This is coming back to bite you for sure.

I'm not inconsistent and I'm not sure how you get that from that quote. They meant that they feel everything they do is wrong - which it kind of is, unfortunately. I have been consistent in pointing that out - though in a supportive way with measures put in place to address the shortcomings. None of this has worked.

But isn't it your job to manage the performance review process? Where is it falling down?

I make recommendations along the lines of pass or fail. At that point, if it's a fail it should go to my line manager (but I don't have one...). Capability is put in place by someone above me - I don't have the authority to say someone is on it, though once they are I have to run it. Then we go back in the circle - I say they've failed it/ a part of it, but I can't take it to the next level.

They meant that they feel everything they do is wrong-which it kind of is unfortunately.
This is red flag to me when combined with you saying they have been through capability twice. If they did pass through it (or part of it, like you say in your update).
There is a pretty strong chance now that, due to shit recruitment and management from you and/or your seniors, you have a disillusioned employee in your hands now.

Another point: you say they have been through capability twice. There should be a process in place to set alarms if this happens and if there isn’t, your employee is the least of your problems. How much training in management have you received?

It's not just incompetence but lies and now rudeness and defensiveness as well

I had a different version of this in that it was my manager who was not only incompetent but untrustworthy and adversarial. I sympathize with how very stressful it is.

Start looking round a bit for a new job for yourself, if only as a way of coping with the stress.

Meanwhile have a think about possible refinements to the interview process as it has clearly failed here.
And double-check for porkies on their CV particularly if that would be gross misconduct and instant sacking!

The procedural stuff I'll defer to PPs. In our case a colleague complained (with GP backup) that the stress was giving her heart problems, at which point HR realised that failure to address the situation was failing to provide a safe working environment. I suspect the fear of her sueing them galvanized HR into getting the paperwork done to get this chap out legally.

But we were in a private company and as PPs have said, they tend to faff about much less!

Capability is put in place by someone above me - I don't have the authority to say someone is on it, though once they are I have to run it. Then we go back in the circle - I say they've failed it/ a part of it, but I can't take it to the next level

I suspected lack of authority to impose a warning was the problem. Public sectors processes can be very hierarchical. Senior leaders are being risk averse and wanting more clear cut evidence of failure before moving to dismissal, hence using this new project as the vehicle.

But OP you can't take that risk yourself. You do need to provide input to the project and support to the Deputy as their line manager. Just keep the evidence of everything so it demonstrates any successes were in spite of the Deputy not because of them. (I'm taking it on trust they are indeed incompetent). And when a new formal meeting is convened make a stronger case that it needs to go to the next stage of the Process.

I am worried about it coming back on me, but I do know the senior manager rates me and has finally seen through this person and is now angry.

They will rate you until they need to cover their arse and then under the bus you go.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Send back a list of questions that would point them in the right direction if they were competent. If they fail to act on them you can say guidance was offered in a form that encouraged reflection and reassessment of the proposed approach without stepping in and taking over as this was a development opportunity for x. Document everything and keep Senior Manager updated so they don’t have plausible deniability.

This is what I'd do- wonderfully put.

Yes, sorry, they have sent me the overview but they won't be receptive to anything

I would intervene and give your advice then, if they ignore and things go wrong you have a paper trail. There's no point in setting them up to fail, not only is it unfair but it could come back on you.

And far from doing nothing to support them I have spent hours and hours supporting - to the detriment of my own family life as I am effectively doing two jobs and providing support.

You need to follow up any time you are spending on supporting them with a "I hope the support I gave you earlier was useful, here are the next steps we both agreed on" type email.

The morale of the team is also being damaged as people see this person doing less than them and being paid more.
If it's a team you manage, you need to deal with morale. If you aren't responsible for managing them, it's not your problem and you have to let it go.

It's not just incompetence but lies and now rudeness and defensiveness as well.
Then that is a conduct rather than a capability issue. You need to keep the two issues separate or it looks like bullying/constructive dismissal. Conduct issues are generally easier to dismiss over.

I think you also need to have a frank discussion with your own manager, with recorded next steps as this is affecting your own ability to do your job effectively. You either need more training on how to manage the situation or more support from them to resolve.

No one is coming out of this situation well and I'm not surprised it is getting to you. Do you enjoy your role otherwise? would you consider a transfer, secondment or leaving?

At a bit of a tangent, I'm afraid, but I feel quite emotional reading some of these posts from people who seem committed to good management and encouraging the best from their staff.

One of the huge regrets of my life is that I have never, in 40 years of paid work, been properly, positively managed. I've never been encouraged to develop by a manager. It was always the stick, never the carrot. Always having stuff dumped on me without guidance or consultation on how to proceed. So much of what I learned came the hard way — being thrown in at the deep end and expected to make it up as I went along, with the threat of dismissal if I couldn't make it work. So many jobs I started full of hope, only to realise I'd been set up to fail or disappoint. So many managers who were unavailable for consultation for weeks, even months, and then descended like a ton of bricks to demand why I hadn't done it this way or that way...

I sometimes wonder how far I could have progressed if I'd been properly managed and my confidence had grown rather than been destroyed.

I can see you're in a really difficult position, OP. You're not being well-managed yourself.

Public sector employee of over 25 years’ standing here. Not only does this demonstrate a failure of effective process as well as being unethical, you’ve also noted morale in the wider team is poor. If you give the project to someone who is predicted to fail it - think about the message that sends to the rest of the team. They see a project someone else could have done well and possibly even gained some career development by given to someone purposely to manage them out. It sends the message they aren’t particularly valued either, so no wonder morale is low. Career development is often hard enough to come by in certain sectors of the public sector, without projects being given to people just to fail them instead of building up knowledge and expertise in people who want to do well.

In my experience, having people the organisation was trying to manage out in exactly the way you describe was an imposition on the rest of the team, as we had to carry the failing individuals. The individuals concerned weren’t popular - and neither were the managers involved, who lost all respect from their staff. Good performance got overlooked completely because they spent so much time with the failing individual and there was never any recognition of the extra effort we went to under the circumstances. It’s things like this that breed cynicism among public sector staff.

Going back a few years I had a line manager to whom I expressed certain concerns. She failed to support me or even deal with the matter and just kicked it into the long grass. At around that time I passed an assessment with flying colours.

At a later stage, when the organization were trying to end my employment, they used the phrase "we saw the amber light". Well if you saw the bloody amber light how come I passed the assessment? How come no concerns were expressed? How come I was not offered further training or support?

I had a good solicitor and left the employer with ten grand in compensation for unfair dismissal (out of court). The line manager was given a written warning.

You need to cover your own back.

Time to dust off a copy of the Nolan principles.