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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think free healthcare as we know it won't exist in five/ten or so years from now?

166 replies

flashbac · 14/07/2021 10:46

And the NHS bill going through parliament is a confirmation of that?
Proposals are that:

Private companies will be able to offer services without any tendering processes (we know from the PPE fiasco how bad that is for the taxpayer),

the statutory duty to provide hospital services will be removed

private (FOR PROFIT) corporations to play a huge part in shaping virtually every aspect of our healthcare.

There's a demo about it today.

OP posts:
FlowersinJune · 14/07/2021 19:07

@Hardbackwriter so true. My friend is a GP and she always despairs when people say “charge for missed GP/hospital appointments”. Cause as she points out probably 95% of missed appointments are elderly/children/those with mental health issues, where it would be completely inappropriate to charge/you would never recover anyway.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:07

I think younger people do already - when I’ve received NHS prescriptions have had to pay

Yes they are means tested except for children & over 60s. Obviously those with lifelong conditions should still get the certificate thing but I think not means testing over 60s is ridiculous & it's not sustainable.

"By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over, 6.8% will be aged 75+ and 3.2% will be aged 85+ (ONS, 2017b)."

Also I find people who need healthcare being able to leave lots of money to their children obscene. Your money is for your life and if you have that much extra everyone else’s shouldn’t be paying for you.

I agree but unfortunately it's deeply unpopular in part because the housing market is so screwed many need that inheritance to get on the ladder. It's all a bloody mess.

CastawayQueen · 14/07/2021 19:09

@Hardbackwriter

Sometimes I feel like quitting my job and joining politics so I can fix all this annoying shit.

If you do you might find it's all a bit harder than you currently realise...

I know - that’s why I haven’t done it (also because I’m a foreigner). I’m on committees etc at work and getting 6 people to agree on things is hard enough let alone entire parties 😂 Probably why negotiation and ‘soft skills’ command a premium but let’s not go there. Also ‘Why we get the wrong politicians’ by Isabel Hardman … enlightening
pubble · 14/07/2021 19:11

@Hardbackwriter I was in a ward last yr & everyone was elderly except myself (30s) & a women in her 50s. What also struck me is how some needed additional attention & couldn't advocate for themselves. One had dementia & was quite aggressive. The nurses understandably really struggled to manage it all as some frankly needed 1:1 care.

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2021 19:13

@Taliskerskye

And god only knows what awaits us when it comes to social care in the future. I’m not saying this as a boomer basher, but basically the only people who will have had anything decent are the boomer generation. How we’ve gone so downhill from there I don’t know
The boomer generation is selling its houses to fund social care. We fully accept that we’re going to have to pay if we need it. Hell, we’ve even got a “care home fund” and that’ll be gone and we’ll be onto the house in no time if we both need care.

We’re both in our sixties so deep in boomer territory.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:17

The boomer generation is selling its houses to fund social care.

Are they? The dementia tax which had some merit caused outrage.

hopeishere · 14/07/2021 19:18

It might be free but where I am (NI) it's crap. You've no chance of getting a knee or hip operation for example. Huge waits for everything else. So it's not a "service".

There needs to be a more open discussion about alternatives it's not a choice between NHS and a US system.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:20

A family friend needed an op but the wait was very long & condition very likely to deteriorate. They could afford the not so insignificant private operation but what about those that can't?

Bargebill19 · 14/07/2021 19:23

@pubble. It would seem that quite a few are. The threshold at which the state will pay is very low. Even if you can get deferred payments to pay for the care home, the house is normally sold in order to pay back that loan. Once the cash runs out assets do have to be realised until you reach the threshold for council payments. Not many families are able to step in to save the ‘family’ home.

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2021 19:23

@pubble

The boomer generation is selling its houses to fund social care.

Are they? The dementia tax which had some merit caused outrage.

Yes, they are. Lots of them. You’re living under a rock if you don’t know this. Our kids are well aware that if we live long enough there will be no inheritance.

The proposed dementia tax was different. It brought your house into the equation if you needed non residential care. You could live in it until you died, then the local authority took its money back.

Hardbackwriter · 14/07/2021 19:25

[quote pubble]@Hardbackwriter I was in a ward last yr & everyone was elderly except myself (30s) & a women in her 50s. What also struck me is how some needed additional attention & couldn't advocate for themselves. One had dementia & was quite aggressive. The nurses understandably really struggled to manage it all as some frankly needed 1:1 care. [/quote]
Yes, that's a good point and a really big part of the issue - as you get older you aren't just more likely to need any care, you're also much more likely to have multiple, comorbid conditions that make providing that care really difficult. A few years ago (I was 31) I needed an operation (suspected cancer - and I will say the NHS went into an amazingly efficient mode when they thought it could be serious for me; very luckily it wasn't) and again was the only person under about 70 there and the nurse talking through the pre-operation form actually laughed at how quick and easy it was to do it because I didn't have any other conditions 'and that never happens'.

I'm very conscious that this sounds almost like I'm saying older people are getting 'too much' or that they're a burden. I'm very much not and absolutely want people to have all the treatment they need throughout their lives but it's foolish to pretend that this can be done easily or affordably giving our ageing population.

UndertheCedartree · 14/07/2021 19:26

I don't recognise a lot of this waiting for years etc. My DS needed to see CAMHS - he was seen within a few weeks and they referred him to the Child Development Centre He saw a paediatrician a few weeks after that. Covid has affected things, of course but he has continued to have OT appointments when possible (some in person, some by telephone/Teams). He has been assessed and diagnosed by a Specialist. I can't fault his treatment at all. It seems such a postcode lottery.

unidentifed · 14/07/2021 19:28

I really just wish we could follow a country with a good model like Sweden.

The NHS in its current form isn't working. Being totally private like the US won't work either, there really has to be a bit of both.

I'm in Canada (used to live in the UK) and here it's all national health with zero option to go private. That doesn't work either.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:28

I know the threshold is low but what does that mean in practice?

It's only if you go into an actual care home that your property value is taken into account not if you have care at home.

Even if permanently in a care home, the value of your property is not included if your partner still lives in the home or a child is there.

Bargebill19 · 14/07/2021 19:30

@Hardbackwriter

Yep and brings in additional questions over wether we should as a nation decide when enough is enough treatment. Do we allow euthanasia? Do we treat at all costs regardless of outcome (happens currently), Do we allow people to actively make choices about their care/health choices in the event of serious illness or accident AND respect and enforce them? By which I’m talking about friends/family/society and Drs.

Hardbackwriter · 14/07/2021 19:30

@UndertheCedartree

I don't recognise a lot of this waiting for years etc. My DS needed to see CAMHS - he was seen within a few weeks and they referred him to the Child Development Centre He saw a paediatrician a few weeks after that. Covid has affected things, of course but he has continued to have OT appointments when possible (some in person, some by telephone/Teams). He has been assessed and diagnosed by a Specialist. I can't fault his treatment at all. It seems such a postcode lottery.
Were things very serious? Twice in my life I've found the NHS has suddenly gone into hyper-efficient mode. Once when I was pregnant with DS1 the consultant listened to his heartbeat and said he needed a scan and I said 'will I get a letter with the appointment?' and she said 'no, I'm taking you for it now'. The other time was when I had this suspected cancer and they needed to remove it because the original biopsy was inconclusive and it was growing rapidly and I asked when the operation would be and the doctor said 'I'm just going to ring to see if it can be tomorrow' (it was the day after that). Tbh it was absolutely terrifying both times because I know the pace at which things normally moved and so I knew they thought things might be really bad.
pubble · 14/07/2021 19:31

Yes, they are. Lots of them. You’re living under a rock if you don’t know this. Our kids are well aware that if we live long enough there will be no inheritance.

I'm not talking about your kids though I'm talking about the population as a whole plus I haven't said no one is selling their homes just disputing it's millions of people.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/07/2021 19:31

I would allow euthanasia.

Going by my own experience with family members...

The fact that we can keep people alive longer doesn't mean we should...

Bargebill19 · 14/07/2021 19:33

@pubble

I know the threshold is low but what does that mean in practice?

It's only if you go into an actual care home that your property value is taken into account not if you have care at home.

Even if permanently in a care home, the value of your property is not included if your partner still lives in the home or a child is there.

Paragraph one answer £23k is the cut off - I’m sure someone will correct me down to the last penny. Paragraph two. Yes, but the dementia tax as proposed over ruled that. Hence the uproar. Paragraph three. Yes and no. There are a host of other conditions that need to be met to have the home discounted. It’s not quite so black and white.
pubble · 14/07/2021 19:33

The proposed dementia tax was different. It brought your house into the equation if you needed non residential care.

But most people have non residential care as opposed to ending up in care home. That's still a cost, how do you think it should be funded?

Bargebill19 · 14/07/2021 19:34

@SchrodingersImmigrant

I totally agree with you. A lot won’t.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:36

@Bargebill19 but why shouldn't care in the home be self funded? It won't be free for younger generations.

Paragraph three. Yes and no. There are a host of other conditions that need to be met to have the home discounted. It’s not quite so black and white

In some cases it is, I have direct experience of it.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:37

The fact that we can keep people alive longer doesn't mean we should...

I definitely think it should be discussed, I find it odd that people are so squeamish about it.

pubble · 14/07/2021 19:39

I'm very conscious that this sounds almost like I'm saying older people are getting 'too much' or that they're a burden. I'm very much not and absolutely want people to have all the treatment they need throughout their lives but it's foolish to pretend that this can be done easily or affordably giving our ageing population

Absolutely & it really does need to be addressed.

Blossomtoes · 14/07/2021 19:41

@pubble

I know the threshold is low but what does that mean in practice?

It's only if you go into an actual care home that your property value is taken into account not if you have care at home.

Even if permanently in a care home, the value of your property is not included if your partner still lives in the home or a child is there.

Your half of your property’s value is taken into account and the local authority reclaims it when your partner dies. The house has to be sold immediately if the partner is under 60. It’s highly unlikely that a care home resident would have been sharing their home with a child - the average age is 87.