To think free healthcare as we know it won't exist in five/ten or so years from now?

[flashbac]

And the NHS bill going through parliament is a confirmation of that?
Proposals are that:

Private companies will be able to offer services without any tendering processes (we know from the PPE fiasco how bad that is for the taxpayer),

the statutory duty to provide hospital services will be removed

private (FOR PROFIT) corporations to play a huge part in shaping virtually every aspect of our healthcare.

There's a demo about it today.

@user27424799642256
Yeah I will. That’s my worry actually! I’m fit and healthy now. But if I got a chronic condition I really don’t think I could rely on the nhs which is pretty terrible

Is the plan if the service provided is bad enough then those that can afford to will turn to private and then the strain on the NHS will reduce? Because it seems that way. It doesn’t seem like a very well thought through plan if that is the case.

Exactly @Flamingo49, people don't understand that private sector = for PROFIT. You are just a number, a unit. How much money can they make from you? How cheaply can they do it? And who can you complain to if they cut corners?

The NHS already do that @Flamingo49 because they're trying to save as much money as possible.

I'm surprised that they've not even tried charging for missed appointments. Even £5 per missed appointment would make sense considering that many GPs have a miss 3 appointments and you're off their list policy

Because it costs more than £5 to collect £5. Because for some families that would mean going without.

When I rule the world all NHS managers and gov ministers dealing with health will have to spend a week a year 'at the shape end', managers should come from the NHS. The number of times new managers arrive, try to implement the same change the last 5 managers did and it didn't work but then brand NHS staff as 'old fashioned' for not trying the same thing the 6th time is doing no one any good.

And god only knows what awaits us when it comes to social care in the future.
I’m not saying this as a boomer basher, but basically the only people who will have had anything decent are the boomer generation.
How we’ve gone so downhill from there I don’t know

I think it's a good idea. The NHS is over and has been for a long time. People should have a choice.

And private sector money making will only increase dependency. They dont want to treat you and sign you off, they want you to be a cash cow for years to come because they are looking at their turnover not you.

According to our patient app which I’ve just checked we would be expected to pay for
Physio, counselling, podiatry, dietician, blood tests, vaccinations, covid - all tests, dentist, and optician and that’s just the first page. So it definitely happening. I suspect that over the next year even more services will added to the list.
We do need our nhs to be free at point of care. I think there needs to be hard choices to be made. If the nhs should be there for all in order to save lives, so the list of services needs to be addressed. Maybe we should pay for bunion surgery as it won’t actually kill you, for example? It’s that or people pay a lot more for an ever expanding service, but historically people don’t vote for tax increases or can afford them even if they would.
I do believe that it won’t be an easy solution making everyone happy but nor do I believe a privatised nhs is in anyway a good thing.

[quote Taliskerskye]@user27424799642256
Yeah I will. That’s my worry actually! I’m fit and healthy now. But if I got a chronic condition I really don’t think I could rely on the nhs which is pretty terrible[/quote]
Yes do

Usually exemptions though even within it

@Nengineer

I think it's a good idea. The NHS is over and has been for a long time. People should have a choice.

What about people who can't afford it?

I do love how the inevitable comments of ach I'll just go private/get insurance. I appreciate Bupa isn't bad but this isn't what the American style system that the Tories want to open us up to.

You know how your pet when sick can cost thousands in the blink of an eye? That's exactly it.

My friends son has PCD. Due to her studying and then getting stuck here with Covid (son had to officially shield) her son has only spent just over 11yrs in the US. Only had 2 ops. He has spent 8yrs in Scotland.

His medical bill is in excess of $11 million.

They charge for every plaster, tube, oxygen mask, needle and swab. Ambulance also costs a fortune.

Other American friends.

1. One spends nearly $1000 a month on her health plan which is a 3rd of her benefits via employer. This is before she pays rent and other bills or buys food.
2. Another had to save up to get her ovarian cyst removed by taking on a second job. She had fallen off her parents insurance, retail doesn't offer benefit packages and she couldn't afford health insurance herself.
3. Disabled friend (many immune conditions) had one important medication she needed that she was expected to pay $28,000 for. In the US if your registered disabled you can't work at all. So she had to crowd fund her treatment.

In the US diabetics will eek out insulin or use out of date insulin. Quite a few die because they run out and can't afford it.

65% of bankruptcies in America are health related.

The reason the NHS is in difficulty is because its been deliberately underfunded for decades by both Tory and Labour parties. The reason its creaking is their fault not the staff who have tried their best.

I know many Americans who would love to have the NHS. Yet many are so bloody willing to let it be destroyed because they can't be arsed fighting for it.

It makes me laugh a bit when we talk about saving the NHS now. When I'm older and likely in need of it I doubt it will exist in any meaningful format at all, but still there's a reluctance to tax rich pensioners (natural Tory voters) and instead continue to gouge working age people for a service they are unlikely to continue to be able to use.

For example when I was pregnant my repeated requests to have an elective Csection - rather than induction followed by the inevitable emergency C-section due to health condition + giant baby - were ignored until I started getting v v vocal.

Why? Because C sections cost the NHS more.

If you think the public NHS as it has your best interests at heart you're fucking joking. Just look ask all the bereaved mums who gave birth in Shropshire.

But Germany. They still have a state run healthcare system. Just one that works. Can we copy them, not America?

@FightingtheFoo

For example when I was pregnant my repeated requests to have an elective Csection - rather than induction followed by the inevitable emergency C-section due to health condition + giant baby - were ignored until I started getting v v vocal.

Why? Because C sections cost the NHS more.

If you think the public NHS as it has your best interests at heart you're fucking joking. Just look ask all the bereaved mums who gave birth in Shropshire.

With all due respect that's a symptom of misogyny in the NHS and not because it public sector. With private sector c sections will be on the increase because they make more profit.

I wouldn’t go to US for model but there are others

Aus has a different one which has small fees

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But Germany. They still have a state run healthcare system. Just one that works. Can we copy them, not America?

But that won't enrich the Tories at the top you see. The donors need to be fed.

I worry that by banning all discussion of an alternatively funded NHS we are going to end up with a choice between an American system for those that can afford it or an unworkable NHS for those that can’t. Bad for the UK public regardless of which we choose.

@Taliskerskye

I’m genuinely thinking of getting private healthcare. I think if anything serious goes wrong with me in the next few years I will be fucked

Me too. We already pay for NHS (I'll provide my own biscuit OP ) but the service we get is so awful I don't trust it to meet my medical needs over the years to come. So yes, OP I agree. It's being dismantled but I bet our taxes don't go down.

We are going to end up with an American system by stealth.
If it was honestly talked about we might stand a chance at a decent system. But no government will do that.

Yes absolutely - I don't trust private doctors because I always suspect they're trying to squeeze more money out of me and I don't trust NHS doctors because I know for a fact they are offering me shitty, inadequate care to save themselves money.

I don't know what the answer is. But I absolutely do not treat the NHS like some sort of bastion of holiness. Believe me, I am extremely grateful that I get my (literally) life-saving medication (insulin) for free but the day to day care is woeful especially in terms of management.

Here's a great example. As a diabetic I need annual foot check ups. I went to the GP to get a referral to podiatry. Podiatry checked my feet, said they're fine and discharged me. I'm fucking diabetic. I will never not be diabetic. I need my feet checked annually.

So now I have to waste my time and the GP's to get an annual referral? It's ridiculous.

Equally people abuse the NHS and we should be given lessons on how to use it properly. The only time I ever went to A&E I was sat near reception and some of the things I heard people come in for was absurd - and this was pre-pandemic so no excuse - one came in for ringworm, another was a woman who'd fainted 2 days ago and proudly said she hasn't been to her GP in 7 years ago. Why was she at A&E?

The NHS is a mess. There is an argument that private companies providing services would be better run. I'm not saying I necessarily subscribe to it but it's not the same as a US insurance-based system.

I've worked in the NHS for a long long time and sadly I think it needs to happen. It was fine when people respected it and didn't abuse it but the public expectations are now that you can have what you want when you want from the NHS and if you don't get it then make a compensation claim.

I have type one diabetes and I lost most of my spleen as a small child, as a result my two chronic health conditions need a lot of careful management. When I worked in the States for a short time my insulin and strips were not covered by the very good policy provided by my employer. I was paying around $360 a month in insulin, now diabetics vary hugely, I’m not a big user of insulin, some people need more, so their costs would be higher.

How many people could afford to pay over $4,000 every single year of their life to stay alive? Thats before we consider other associated health issues that those of us with type one diabetes are vulnerable to, plus how much will annual check ups of sight, feet etc cost?

The UK pays 7 percent of GDP on healthcare (nhs + private). The US pays 18 percent (12 percent for free healthcare for poor/ elderly, 8 percent private). Germany pays 12 percent of gdp (private + public).

Of course your taxes wont go down if we all get private healthcare. Wed have to pay for the poor (such as disabled) and elderly (quite rightly) who obviously use a lot of healthcare. We may even need to pay more taxes for healthcare (such as the US and their 12 percent). Japan has 10x more CT scanners per capita than we do.

The NHS should be criticised how else can it improve! But people saying we shouldnt fund the nhs more because it already gets a lot of funding clearly dont understand how poorly funded it is. Wed have to almost double the funding to be near a european healthcare spend average.