To think free healthcare as we know it won't exist in five/ten or so years from now?

[flashbac]

And the NHS bill going through parliament is a confirmation of that?
Proposals are that:

Private companies will be able to offer services without any tendering processes (we know from the PPE fiasco how bad that is for the taxpayer),

the statutory duty to provide hospital services will be removed

private (FOR PROFIT) corporations to play a huge part in shaping virtually every aspect of our healthcare.

There's a demo about it today.

The the first person who says "it isnt free" gets a biscuit.

It is free meaning I don't get a huge, bankrupting bill afterwards. Not yet anyway but watch this space...

Oh absolutely that’s the way it’s going to be. It will all be insurance like the USA and only those on benefits or pensioners will get it free or at reduced cost and they will be put on huge waiting lists for the free treatment. Anyone who thinks differently is delusional. I’m lucky to have private health insurance through work and I will be putting my parents on it soon because as they get older I don’t think the NHS will be reliable anymore.

I think it will definitely become less 'free' over time. The sad thing is that you could do it in a fair way -- you could adopt the French model where you pay according to your means. A huge percentage pay nothing at all, lower income pay a few quid, and even the highest income people don't pay loads (25 quid for the GP). And French health care is very good.

But it costs a bomb and the Tories would never. They'll just force people into private more and more by letting the NHS break down.

I’m genuinely thinking of getting private healthcare. I think if anything serious goes wrong with me in the next few years I will be fucked

You are right. But I think it’s happening a lot quicker than people realise. Our gp has the patient access app. Already on there are loads of services you can purchase which used to be free on the nhs and never considered as paid for services. One that springs to mind are blood tests.

Its fkn scary. I would probably be out of work and on disability benefits if not for the NHS.

@Taliskerskye

I’m genuinely thinking of getting private healthcare. I think if anything serious goes wrong with me in the next few years I will be fucked

I don’t think it’s a bad idea if you can

We’re covered with work which brings some reassurance

I'm already disabled and therefore not eligible for private health cover. As soon as you develop a health problem you get put in the dustbin. So I'm fucked.

And I became disabled young before I understood how these things work to have even considered I needed to try and get private health cover on my low income while I was still young and healthy enough to be accepted.

Indeed. But the NHS in its current form is totally unaffordable, and every year that passes only makes it more so. We have some of the lowest doctor to patient ratios in Europe, the worst cancer outcomes in Europe too. It’s underfunded, and we cannot keep throwing money at it in the hope that things improve as the nhs in its current form is unaffordable.

We need to look at how other European health services are funded and take the best system they have. Germany for instance has a public healthcare system funded by employer and employees. We don’t want to end up like America but is it such a bad thing to try to aim to be a bit like Germany?

But, whenever changing the funding of the NHS is raised, so many different groups start screeching like banshees that the plans get shelved and we end up with the same underfunded, failing system we have now. A prime example is CAMHS. We don’t have a CAMHS that works even slightly in this country. If you can afford it you go private, if not your child sits on a waiting list for years. Things HAVE to change!

@Taliskerskye

I’m genuinely thinking of getting private healthcare. I think if anything serious goes wrong with me in the next few years I will be fucked

Get it now then. If you wait for something to go wrong you won't be eligible anymore.

Yes, I expect there will come a time we'll need to have private insurance.
They'd better bloody well not take the tax off us too though!

I know this isn’t a popular opinion here, but the NHS as it is at present is nowhere near fit for purpose. I have had a couple of health conditions pretty much my whole life, and I can honestly, hand on heart say that I do not recognise the selfless, kind, caring “angels” the NHS have been promoted as over the last year or so. My PERSONAL experience has been very, very different even pre-Covid; rude, impatient sometimes aggressive medical staff, delayed or cancelled appointments with no notice, being left waiting weeks for important test results, only to be told they have been lost, the sense that I should be grateful that they are doing their jobs and treating me (almost verbatim from one nurse)...the Covid crisis has just highlighted that this is NOT a system fit for purpose, and the government have been trying to distract us from that with the constant fawning and sob stories. I’m not saying private is the way to go, but something definitely needs to change in my experience 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think there's a lot of confusion about what privatising the NHS means. A lot of people (myself included) have only the most basic understanding of how the NHS works eg the fact that hospitals are managed and paid for by trusts.

The key point is that regardless of who is providing the care (whether a state funded or private company) as long as it is free at point of care that is all that matters.

So it is, in theory, irrelevant whether it's a private clinic doing your scan or one run by a health trust as long as you don't have to pay for it.

The pros and cons of those services being provided by a private company vs a public one are a separate conversation.

From your post I can't see anything suggesting that care will no longer be free to users - if you can point me to something that does I would be interested to see it.

The US system is barbaric but I cannot imagine that is what is being proposed here.

It has already started.

I have just sought help for disordered eating for my DD. She has a specific issue which is already impacting her and has the potential to become extremely serious. Early intervention is vital.

My first stop was my GP, who immediately understood the severity of what we are dealing with and fully agreed with the need for swift action. The conversation went like this....

GP: Normally the next step would be a referral to CAHMS, but...
Me: Is there a long wait list?
GP: Honestly, it could be years.
Me: Should we go privately? We can pay.
GP: If it was my daughter, yes, absolutely.
Me: Is it still worth pursuing a CAHMS referral in the meantime?
GP: No. Honestly, I wouldn't bother.

It is absolutely disgusting that metal health services are basically non-existent for children.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Indeed. But the NHS in its current form is totally unaffordable, and every year that passes only makes it more so. We have some of the lowest doctor to patient ratios in Europe, the worst cancer outcomes in Europe too. It’s underfunded, and we cannot keep throwing money at it in the hope that things improve as the nhs in its current form is unaffordable.

We need to look at how other European health services are funded and take the best system they have. Germany for instance has a public healthcare system funded by employer and employees. We don’t want to end up like America but is it such a bad thing to try to aim to be a bit like Germany?

But, whenever changing the funding of the NHS is raised, so many different groups start screeching like banshees that the plans get shelved and we end up with the same underfunded, failing system we have now. A prime example is CAMHS. We don’t have a CAMHS that works even slightly in this country. If you can afford it you go private, if not your child sits on a waiting list for years. Things HAVE to change!

All of this. The NHS is not fit for purpose and never will be under taxation only. Our healthcare is woeful compared to so many European countries. It doesn't have to be a US model. But it does need to change.

There does seem to be such a suspicious attitude to anything to do with the NHS. The recent ‘GPs selling your data’ nonsense when the GP data was merely to be totally anonymised and passed to the UK Biobank for use in medical research. Yet the assumption was that your data would be sold to e.g. your car insurance company to know whether to increase your premiums, or life insurance companies, or Stannah to know where to send their stairlift advertising.

I recently had a couple of issues that I paid for private consultations because I didn’t want to wait for my NHS appointment. Since then, DH and I have looked at healthcare packages for the 4 of us because we realised we actually spend more on tv and internet a month than the cost of health cover! It’s something we’ve realised we should prioritise especially with the knock on of covid and the waiting lists growing all the time. I really think we will be seeing the impacts of healthcare services being so reduced and restricted these last 18 months for at least the next 5 years. And if we are going private it frees up a spot for someone less able to afford it.

I do think healthcare in the UK needs a big rethink. It’s almost like a blind religion the way people bark ‘Save the NHS’ without any sort of criticism allowed.

I agree.
We already have dentistry that we pay for even if it's NHS treatment abs I can imagine other services doing the same.
I'm surprised that they've not even tried charging for missed appointments. Even £5 per missed appointment would make sense considering that many GPs have a miss 3 appointments and you're off their list policy

I believe that one of the issues is that the NHS now covers so many treatments that weren't even contemplated at the time it was set up

I had a minor health scare a year or two ago, and I was beyond impressed at how well I was treated. I'm sad it's not always like that for everyone

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

Yes, I expect there will come a time we'll need to have private insurance. They'd better bloody well not take the tax off us too though!

We'll still be taxed. Someone has to pay for them to get rich after all. That is what this is. It's not to save tax. It's so that there is more for them.

I’m at Gp and I think that there should be some form of privatisation. I don’t have all the answers but think the nhs at the moment is a failing system. As PP says camhs is absolutely atrocious service provision.

Overall there is too much demand, it tries to cover too many things. It simply cannot provide everything for everybody, and sadly it does get abused. Usually this means that the people who rarely use it struggle to even get basic needs met, and high frequency users become more and more dependant and have higher expectations about what they are entitled too. And nobody ends up happy.

I agree with pp that nhs staff are often rude and aloof - I certainly have been previously and it was because I was utterly burnt out, overworked, put upon and became emotionally detached. I stopped caring. The system needs to change.

I work for the nhs and yes, it will be completely different. Have you seen the Cleveland Clinic that is being built in London? American healthcare firms are ready to pounce- and their recruiting from the nhs. They are currently looking for icu nurses and after the year we’ve had..:. It’s tempting.

@FightingtheFoo

I think there's a lot of confusion about what privatising the NHS means. A lot of people (myself included) have only the most basic understanding of how the NHS works eg the fact that hospitals are managed and paid for by trusts.

The key point is that regardless of who is providing the care (whether a state funded or private company) as long as it is free at point of care that is all that matters.

So it is, in theory, irrelevant whether it's a private clinic doing your scan or one run by a health trust as long as you don't have to pay for it.

The pros and cons of those services being provided by a private company vs a public one are a separate conversation.

From your post I can't see anything suggesting that care will no longer be free to users - if you can point me to something that does I would be interested to see it.

The US system is barbaric but I cannot imagine that is what is being proposed here.

No, it is not all that matters. A private company is not operating health services out of the goodness of their hearts, they are in it for profit. So, for example, if you sought mental health support from a service run by a private provider, perhaps they might not offer you a clinical psychologist, it might be an unqualified mental health worker with minimal training. And you might be offered 6 sessions instead of the necessary 16. Anything to make a profit!

I agree the system needs to change but I dont trust people with disdain for poor people, with disdain for fair and open processes, who funnel cash to their mates and donors, to do it!
Look at the test and trace fiasco. Do we really think the people who were in charge of that to bring about efficiency and value for money in the NHS?