To only do voluntary work as an undergraduate student?

[Ahsoka2001]

I'm 20 and and have just finished the second year of my undergraduate degree. Despite choosing a course that isn't exactly known for its job opportunities (Film and Creative Writing!) I've managed to secure two voluntary positions relevant(ish) to my degree.

One is working with a local film society, helping with event set-up at their screenings (outdoor and drive-in) and social media marketing. The second involves writing YouTube descriptions (which will later be put into a forthcoming cookbook manuscript) and social media posts for a local restaurant owner, who I also manage a Facebook group for.

I love both positions (and indeed, my degree itself, which I've achieved a 1st for in both years) and think both can open up a lot of doors, but sometimes I feel a bit bad that I'm not doing any paid work. Money isn't an issue, but I just feel bad that I'm not working "properly" if that makes sense. Most of the work is done from home (film society events aside) and so it feels like I still have a lot of free time on my hands for the summer. Maybe I'm just one of those people who's been conditioned to feel productive constantly...

Do you think it's OK that I technically don't have a "job" per se, even if these unpaid experiences will - in the long run - be a lot more helpul to my career ambitions than a paid job irrelevant to my degree....

Film society sounds good. Maintaining the social media profile for a for-profit restaurant business sounds... less good, less like volunteering, more like exploitation, to be honest.
Think about new skills you're getting from these jobs and what do you want to be doing after you graduate. Are they a match?

@forinborin

Film society sounds good. Maintaining the social media profile for a for-profit restaurant business sounds... less good, less like volunteering, more like exploitation, to be honest. Think about new skills you're getting from these jobs and what do you want to be doing after you graduate. Are they a match?

Exploitation? Not sure what you mean there...? I'm an admin for a FB group managed by the owner (tied to his brand but also just for generally talking about curry) and like I said, I write YouTube video descriptions and post twice a week on FB/Instagram/Twitter for him. He doesn't pay me (except in free takeaways) only because he has about 12 students working for him so would be broke if he paid everyone...

Of course it's fine if you can finance it.

I'd take note of the fact that your chosen industry relies on free labour though, and consider how that affects your future career.

I'd also think hard about whether your enthusiasm is being exploited - why on earth is a local restaurant using a volunteer? Assuming it's not a charity of some sort that really is taking the piss.

@Zarene

Of course it's fine if you can finance it.

I'd take note of the fact that your chosen industry relies on free labour though, and consider how that affects your future career.

I'd also think hard about whether your enthusiasm is being exploited - why on earth is a local restaurant using a volunteer? Assuming it's not a charity of some sort that really is taking the piss.

All I do for the restaurant itself is post on their social media pages (FB and Instagram) twice a week. The rest of the work is more for my boss himself rather than the restaurant - the Facebook group I mentioned isn't directly associated with the venue, nor is the YouTube channel or forthcoming cookbook. He doesn't pay me cause he has many students working for him (doing different roles) so can only reward us with free curries haha

Cross post with you both - yes, it's exploitative. You're doing marketing for a business, for which you should be paid. I think it's horrific that he has 12 people doing this!

Does he not pay his chefs? The fact that 'he would go bust if he paid everyone' is why minimum wage rules exist.

@Zarene

Cross post with you both - yes, it's exploitative. You're doing marketing for a business, for which you should be paid. I think it's horrific that he has 12 people doing this!

Does he not pay his chefs? The fact that 'he would go bust if he paid everyone' is why minimum wage rules exist.

Not all 12 students do marketing - others do filming and editing for his YouTube videos. Of course he pays his chefs! At the end of the day, me and the other students have agreed to do this work for free and I guess we care about the experience more than anything else. He also works very closely with the uni (he's a global brand ambassador) so surely they'd have stepped in if they thought it was exploitative...?

I mean that if he has a business that he earns money from, and gets some sort of service from you and 11 other students without paying, it is one of the two:

1. You are not actually adding any value. Which means you probably are not getting any marketable skills there as well.
2. You are adding value but he gets it for free (and not only from you, but from 11 other people). So why another employer should pay you real money in a real job, if they can get it for free from volunteer students?

You speak about getting experience - can you be more specific about the experience you are getting there? What is good about it?

That's my point - he pays his chefs, so why doesn't he pay you? He clearly does have money, but he's getting a free ride by offering you nebulous 'experience'.

Have a look at this - classing someone as a 'volunteer' used to be a common way of breaking minimum wage rules. This has been clarified now - unless it's clearly organised work experience (doesn't sound like it), or for a charity, you should be being paid. www.gov.uk/employment-rights-for-interns

@forinborin

I mean that if he has a business that he earns money from, and gets some sort of service from you and 11 other students without paying, it is one of the two: 1) You are not actually adding any value. Which means you probably are not getting any marketable skills there as well. 2) You are adding value but he gets it for free (and not only from you, but from 11 other people). So why another employer should pay you real money in a real job, if they can get it for free from volunteer students?

You speak about getting experience - can you be more specific about the experience you are getting there? What is good about it?

Well, personally I thought I was channeling/gaining a few good marketing skills through the work - writing persuasively, tracking engagement (analytics), analyzing data (times of day users are most active, etc.), managing the page, conversing with users (mainly on the FB group)... If this cookbook is published in the end with my descriptions featured he said I'd get a "co-editor" credit, that definitely counts for something!

I've done all these things with the film society, too, but to be fair that's a strictly not-for-profit organization so it makes a bit more sense that we'd all be volunteers.

@Zarene

That's my point - he pays his chefs, so why doesn't he pay you? He clearly does have money, but he's getting a free ride by offering you nebulous 'experience'.

Have a look at this - classing someone as a 'volunteer' used to be a common way of breaking minimum wage rules. This has been clarified now - unless it's clearly organised work experience (doesn't sound like it), or for a charity, you should be being paid. www.gov.uk/employment-rights-for-interns

Not sure it is clearly organized experience, to be honest - a member of my uni department just sent out an email saying that the guy needed a student for a placement, and I emailed him asking about it. I was offered the role right at the end of my interview (which was very informal, but some people are just like that).

Regardless of the exploitative element — and I do agree with pps — as neither of these voluntary positions sound at all onerous, why not get a paid job as well? How are you supporting yourself?

Another one who thinks you should be paid. You could be marketing your copywriting for serious money - you're giving it away. A free curry is an absolute pisstake.

I work in TV production (so not film but similar industries) and often hire new entrants. Jobs like bar work, cleaning, waitressing etc are of far more interest to most employers than an unpaid social media job at a local film society will be. Customer service skills, handling cash, juggling demands, getting your hands dirty - all things that show us you'd be an asset on location on a busy shoot day. I'm also very wary of CVs from people with literally no work history.

Honestly, you are being mugged off by the restaurant guy. He is totally taking the piss and absolutely ought to be paying you at least minimum wage for your time.

This kind of thing is very common, but you need to toughen up and start saying no. You'll look back on this in years to come and cringe at the naivety. If I was the person paying your living costs I would be fuming.

Check out the clients from hell website and r/choosingbeggars. Creative work is work and should be paid a fair wage.

Your voluntary roles are good to do but I would also look at getting some paid work to add to your CV as well. A paid role has a different level of responsibility and accountability, and skills you might not get via volunteering.

No it’s not ok.

The privileged few like you, who can afford to do this work for nothing are blocking out anyone who could only afford to apply if it were a paid position

It’s immoral

You'll be more attractive to employers if you have paid work experience on your CV. The expectations of a paid employee are different to those of a volunteer and employers want to know that the person they hire can meet targets, can multi-task, demonstrate good customer service and work ethic, be punctual, prioritise effectively etc.

@0None0

No it’s not ok.

The privileged few like you, who can afford to do this work for nothing are blocking out anyone who could only afford to apply if it were a paid position

It’s immoral

Well, if it weren't me, it would be someone else - someone's gotta do both these roles, and neither of my bosses would pay them for it. I'm really sorry you feel that way.

@PinkArt

I work in TV production (so not film but similar industries) and often hire new entrants. Jobs like bar work, cleaning, waitressing etc are of far more interest to most employers than an unpaid social media job at a local film society will be. Customer service skills, handling cash, juggling demands, getting your hands dirty - all things that show us you'd be an asset on location on a busy shoot day. I'm also very wary of CVs from people with literally no work history.

You make a very interesting point that I hadn't thought of, thank you! I should say that I have had one paid job - between the ages of 17 and 18 (during A-Levels) I worked as a kitchen porter for my best mate's dad. That was very full-on - 9-10 hour shifts on my feet, getting my hands dirty. I'm surprised no one at my uni (including the careers team, who I'm in constant touch with) has said this...

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

Your voluntary roles are good to do but I would also look at getting some paid work to add to your CV as well. A paid role has a different level of responsibility and accountability, and skills you might not get via volunteering.

As per a previous reply, I have had one paid job - I worked as a kitchen porter at a restaurant during college.

@HalfShrunkMoreToGo

You'll be more attractive to employers if you have paid work experience on your CV. The expectations of a paid employee are different to those of a volunteer and employers want to know that the person they hire can meet targets, can multi-task, demonstrate good customer service and work ethic, be punctual, prioritise effectively etc.

Thank you for your thoughts. As per a previous reply, I have had one paid job - I worked as a kitchen porter at a restaurant during college.

@ScaredOfDinosaurs

Honestly, you are being mugged off by the restaurant guy. He is totally taking the piss and absolutely ought to be paying you at least minimum wage for your time.

This kind of thing is very common, but you need to toughen up and start saying no. You'll look back on this in years to come and cringe at the naivety. If I was the person paying your living costs I would be fuming.

Check out the clients from hell website and r/choosingbeggars. Creative work is work and should be paid a fair wage.

Thanks for your thoughts - just so you know, I do pay all my own living costs :) No help from parents. My loan isn't bad (and my accommodation's been pretty cheap lately), plus I still have a fair bit saved up from when I worked in college, etc.

When you say 'someone's gotta do these roles and neither boss would pay for it', does that not ring alarm bells? If this work is absolutely crucial to the success of the enterprise (as critical as having a chef in the restaurant, which someone really gotta do), and the business cannot afford it, then it isn't really a viable business.

If you can survive financially and you’re happy with it, then I don’t see the problem. However, if your chosen degree is very difficult to find work in I would be looking at getting some paid work experience in something else, so that when you graduate you’re not left at a loose end with only volunteering in a very specific creative sphere to put on your CV.

@ParsleyDill

Regardless of the exploitative element — and I do agree with pps — as neither of these voluntary positions sound at all onerous, why not get a paid job as well? How are you supporting yourself?

Might have to wait till September to get a paid job, realistically. I'm only in my uni town for 2 more weeks before living at home for the whole of August - no one's gonna want someone for just 2-4 weeks surely? But yes, once it's feasible, I think that would be a good idea, if only for the extra paid experience :) Money isn't an issue at all for me atm, mainly due to my generous student loan and cheap accommodation (private housing). Still have quite a bit saved up from the job I had in college, etc. too