To only do voluntary work as an undergraduate student?

[Ahsoka2001]

I'm 20 and and have just finished the second year of my undergraduate degree. Despite choosing a course that isn't exactly known for its job opportunities (Film and Creative Writing!) I've managed to secure two voluntary positions relevant(ish) to my degree.

One is working with a local film society, helping with event set-up at their screenings (outdoor and drive-in) and social media marketing. The second involves writing YouTube descriptions (which will later be put into a forthcoming cookbook manuscript) and social media posts for a local restaurant owner, who I also manage a Facebook group for.

I love both positions (and indeed, my degree itself, which I've achieved a 1st for in both years) and think both can open up a lot of doors, but sometimes I feel a bit bad that I'm not doing any paid work. Money isn't an issue, but I just feel bad that I'm not working "properly" if that makes sense. Most of the work is done from home (film society events aside) and so it feels like I still have a lot of free time on my hands for the summer. Maybe I'm just one of those people who's been conditioned to feel productive constantly...

Do you think it's OK that I technically don't have a "job" per se, even if these unpaid experiences will - in the long run - be a lot more helpul to my career ambitions than a paid job irrelevant to my degree....

Your volunteer experiences sound great. They show both skills and initiative.

They are more 'marketing' or 'social media' than directly related to your degree though. This isn't a problem, as the field of communications is a nice area, especially for someone with your degree.

I would use the word 'internship' to describe your work on your CV.

@rainbowfairylights

*I absolutely agree that the restaurant marketing is irrelevant to film - but I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) it was relevant to a potential career in marketing? Especially with my film society marketing experience on top of it?

There's been a couple things I've done with the film society I didn't mention - do you think any of these are helpful? I've worked as a location marshal for a short film project they made with local children (I operated the boom mic and dealt with the public). I also wrote a screenplay for a short film (later published on the uni creative writing blog) that was partially filmed by a couple of my colleagues for their community filmmaking organization. Again, I accompanied them to set and helped set up equipment, etc. It was amazing to see one of my scripts brought to life - just such a shame we didn't finish it!*

@Ahsoka2001 Hmmm... I wouldn't say the restaurant role would get you anywhere with marketing, no. Especially if you want to go into marketing in film. I'd see if you can get a student placement with an independent cinema and focus on marketing there if that's somewhere that interests you.

I think a lot of the film society stuff that you mention here would help yes - try and do more of that though, that's the stuff that will make you look self-motivated and eager to learn in the film world!

Thank you so much! Hopefully with COVID seemingly on the way out I'll be able to do a lot more of that stuff with the Film Society in Year 3. If it wasn't for the lockdowns I'd have done more of it - I was going to help on a practical filmmaking workshop for some local schoolchildren, for instance, but that had to be cancelled :-( I'll look for some more paid work (marketing-related or not) too - I feel so stupid for turning that pizza role down now!

@mathanxiety

Your volunteer experiences sound great. They show both skills and initiative.

They are more 'marketing' or 'social media' than directly related to your degree though. This isn't a problem, as the field of communications is a nice area, especially for someone with your degree.

I would use the word 'internship' to describe your work on your CV.

You're the first person who hasn't called my curry job ""useless" or "exploitative" - do you disagree with these sentiments? I agree that they're not directly related to a film degree, but I'm enjoying the marketing stuff and wouldn't mind doing it as a full-time job after uni instead of going into the film industry - at least not at first...

Surely the intersection of your interests in film and marketing is film marketing? So why not look at which companies do that and what internship and other entry level opportunities they offer?

Please don't take any comments personally people are speaking from a point of experience that you didn't previously have, you've now got knowledge that you can share with course mates, friends etc just by posting here.
I'm disgusted with your university who seem to have played an active part in the exploitation of their students.

There are paid digital marketing internships at major firms. This is the sort of thing you should be applying to do.

The curry "job" is a scam. Either it's a job worth doing and he therefore pays to have it done. Or its a pointless exercise, in which case what do you learn from doing it?
A brief unpaid position where you are observing people doing a role is fine - like two weeks work experience to learn about a sector or industry. But if you are doing actual work, then it needs to be paid.

If you are going to work for free, at least do it for a charity.

Here are paid roles from a 30 second Google - you want to get a job in marketing, then this is a much better use of your time

Eg 12 month paid digital marketing internship with Hilton
www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2646853804

12 month paid internship at Wyndham Hotels & Resorts: www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2629282776

A three month paid role at a property company www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2641385941

12 month paid role at a charity
www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/national-association-of-local-councils-nalc-/communications-intern/756659?tsId=2

Flexible marketing content role, pays 10 quid an hour
www.studentjob.co.uk/vacancies/1992000-social-media-content-marketer

@Gingerkittykat

I fail to see how bunging a couple of posts a week up on social media and looking at the analytics counts as a job. Moderating a Facebook group also doesn't count as a job.

What exactly do you mean by writing youtube descriptions? Do you transcribe the whole videos?

How often are the film society events?

I wouldn't believe the boss when he says you might get a co-editor mention IF a book is published, eh's clearly taking the piss out of you and the other students.

The film society events would normally be twice a week. but sadly we've had to cancel a few this season due to low ticket sales.

I do also go to the film society office twice a week to help my boss with general office duties (proofreading emails to the council, designing ticket artwork, editing the website, conversing with the council over the phone, etc.) So normally I'd be going out and working for them 4 days a week.

I used to go into the restaurant for the other role every Wednesday, too, but he's now saying he doesn't need me to cause I'm "well on top of everything" and he'd rather spend time with other students who are apparently not doing everything he's asked. Hmm...

[quote MojoMoon]There are paid digital marketing internships at major firms. This is the sort of thing you should be applying to do.

The curry "job" is a scam. Either it's a job worth doing and he therefore pays to have it done. Or its a pointless exercise, in which case what do you learn from doing it?
A brief unpaid position where you are observing people doing a role is fine - like two weeks work experience to learn about a sector or industry. But if you are doing actual work, then it needs to be paid.

If you are going to work for free, at least do it for a charity.

Here are paid roles from a 30 second Google - you want to get a job in marketing, then this is a much better use of your time

Eg 12 month paid digital marketing internship with Hilton
www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2646853804

12 month paid internship at Wyndham Hotels & Resorts: www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2629282776

A three month paid role at a property company www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2641385941

12 month paid role at a charity
www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs/national-association-of-local-councils-nalc-/communications-intern/756659?tsId=2

Flexible marketing content role, pays 10 quid an hour
www.studentjob.co.uk/vacancies/1992000-social-media-content-marketer[/quote]
Thank you so much for these :) Will check them out!

Here's a marketing internship working with an entertainment company: en.wizbii.com/company/canal/job/home-entertainment-digital-marketing-intern-h-f-3?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic

And if facilitation is an area you're interested in I'd be getting back in touch with the company/person who was setting you up with the filmmaking workshop gig, now that lockdown is easing.

This is wildly outing but I own a marketing agency that, among other things, offers social media marketing services exclusively to small business - including a few local food places.

And they all pay.

You are being exploited. The restaurant owner isn't using your services for fun, he's using them for profit, and he's literally breaking the law by not paying you and your colleagues minimum wage.

Your experience which sounds great on paper for a graduate role but if your interview responses were similar to those here - you wouldn't be hired. You've just said multiple times that you don't believe someone deserves to be paid for providing digital marketing services, whilst interviewing for a role that would require you to be paid for providing digital marketing services.

And yes, it does devalue the industry and yes, it does reinforce social disparity.

@LostInTheColonies

Curry guy is taking the piss. That aside – you're 20 and you've only ever had one job???!!! No Saturday jobs, holiday jobs, work between school & uni? My mind is slightly blown.

I really don't think it's that unusual. My daughter is a year younger than the op and has just started her first paid job this summer. She has done plenty of volunteer work in the past, and we have supported her in pursuing her interests in order for her to get onto the degree course she is currently on. She has worked incredibly hard to get where she is - a Saturday job would not have fitted in with that.

Those bemoaning the exploitation - yes, it's a problem.

But sitting on the sidelines wringing your hands at the unfairness of life and letting others get the opportunities while you wait for legislation to catch up with the real world will result in a blank CV.

You have to deal with reality.

You are being exploited. I've been there and got that shitty t-shirt when I was an undergraduate too and I wish someone had spelt it out to me much sooner. You're adding value to a for profit business and for that you need to be compensated.

I'd bin curry man in favour of a paid for role.

@mathanxiety

Those bemoaning the exploitation - yes, it's a problem.

But sitting on the sidelines wringing your hands at the unfairness of life and letting others get the opportunities while you wait for legislation to catch up with the real world will result in a blank CV.

You have to deal with reality.

I can see both sides of the argument. For every person who agrees with this viewpoint, there'll be another that feels very strongly the other way, so I guess at the end of the day I shouldn't worry too much about which decision I make...

I'm having a meeting with the uni careers advisors later this week to discuss the curry role. It's very possible they don't know the full extent of the role - it was initially advertised as a "creative writing" opportunity (referring to the cookbook and video descriptions). Nothing was said explicitly about the marketing stuff.

Whether you’re being paid or not, it’s of limited benefit to you in terms of CV enhancement so I would prioritise doing something a bit more ambitious frankly.

The problem op is that despite @Sonders' eloquent post, you don't seem to believe you should be being paid.

So on that basis it's a good job you can afford to live this way.

@CoRhona

The problem op is that despite *@Sonders*' eloquent post, you don't seem to believe you should be being paid.

So on that basis it's a good job you can afford to live this way.

It was an excellent post, I never said it wasn't insightful!

I'm now beginning to realize that maybe not being paid for contributing to the business (even if just through some Facebook posts) may be unfair, and that's why I'm speaking to the careers team about it. Don't think I'm not taking everything you're all saying to heart.

Please please listen to people who strongly suggest you should do neither of these roles for free.They are not for charitable institutions. The restaurant is a business and all businesses should pay their workers. You are being exploited, and even more pernicious, you are devaluing what is actually a highly skilled job, by agreeing to do it for free. The fact you do it well for no money devalues it. Can you see this? If you stopped doing it and someone else tried they might find it hard. They might be slow. The restauranteur would start to value your skills, as should you.

Never ever work for free unless you are volunteering at a charity or doing a trainee internship very short term in which you pick up skills which will lead to secure paid work. Please stop now. Especially in your profession which you recognise as being underpaid. Writers have enormously valuable skillsets that they and others take for granted. Stop offering them for free and you;ll bve amazed...suddenly money can be found.

Incidentally one of my DC, late teens, does similar work to you for a start up company and gets paid on a sliding scale of £20-60 per hour for it, depending on how quickly they need the work. (The high end being a midnight call for a previously unbooked overnighter.) There is money out there for the work you do. At minimum you should be getting £15ph for it. That;s the lower end rate in Indeed.

@Cowbells

Please please listen to people who strongly suggest you should do neither of these roles for free.They are not for charitable institutions. The restaurant is a business and all businesses should pay their workers. You are being exploited, and even more pernicious, you are devaluing what is actually a highly skilled job, by agreeing to do it for free. The fact you do it well for no money devalues it. Can you see this? If you stopped doing it and someone else tried they might find it hard. They might be slow. The restauranteur would start to value your skills, as should you.

Never ever work for free unless you are volunteering at a charity or doing a trainee internship very short term in which you pick up skills which will lead to secure paid work. Please stop now. Especially in your profession which you recognise as being underpaid. Writers have enormously valuable skillsets that they and others take for granted. Stop offering them for free and you;ll bve amazed...suddenly money can be found.

Incidentally one of my DC, late teens, does similar work to you for a start up company and gets paid on a sliding scale of £20-60 per hour for it, depending on how quickly they need the work. (The high end being a midnight call for a previously unbooked overnighter.) There is money out there for the work you do. At minimum you should be getting £15ph for it. That;s the lower end rate in Indeed.

Thanks for your thoughts - the film society is a not-for-profit organization, so it makes sense that I'm only a volunteer for that, but countless people have voiced similar opinions about the restaurant role now, so it's clear there's something more to that which I hadn't considered.

Im glad you’re meeting with your careers team. Obviously you can go into more nuanced detail with them but don’t try to oversell the role or embellish what exactly you’re doing. They could be legit however the sheer number of students being “offered these opportunities” is what leads me to think they’re using you for free labour. Volunteers should add value to and support the work of paid staff and should not be used to displace paid staff or undercut their pay and conditions of service. With 12 students doing vast amounts if work that could easily be seen as displacing staff, hence explorative. Yes, it’s giving you “experience” but is it valuable to you?

Good luck! And remember your worth.

Spelling is atrocious but I hope you get the gist.

Alongside pp, I wouldn’t even say only volunteer for charities as lots of well known charities have been found to exploit their volunteers. It’s about the value you gain and the opportunity they offer, how much they invest in you!

These will likely do you in good stead if relevant for your career. I'd also try and get some WE at firms you'd like to work for.

I worked (paid) throughout my degrees and they helped but I still ended up doing an apprenticeship due to lack of relevant experience

@mathanxiety

Those bemoaning the exploitation - yes, it's a problem.

But sitting on the sidelines wringing your hands at the unfairness of life and letting others get the opportunities while you wait for legislation to catch up with the real world will result in a blank CV.

You have to deal with reality.

Sorry @mathanxiety - I don't agree on this at all. No one is getting an opportunity by working for a restaurant for free. There is loads and loads of SM copywriting work out there. Badly paid, freelance, sporadic but paid. OP could pick up a handful of jobs from Indeed within a week. They wouldn't earn a living wage but they would be equivalent experience, paid. That's the start we should be encouraging our DC to aim for. Not exploitation.

I know writers who work for free and those who don't. No difference in talent or reliability. Guess which ones are more highly rated? The paid ones.

In the past I did jobs in the arts which other people typically do for free. Every single time I asked the fee. Every single time they'd say there isn't one. Every single time I'd say, that's a shame, bye. Then 9/10 times they'd come back and tell me there was a fee after all. And sometimes I'd find I was the only one being paid.

And OP, if people question your insistence on being paid, just sweetly smile and say: do you work for this organisation for free? If they do, you can reconsider. If they don't, ask why they expect you to. Do it super politely but do it.

While you are building up a CV, i.e. a list of reasons why someone should pay you to work, working as an unpaid intern is perfectly fine. Freelance and sporadic work translates to spotty work history on a CV.

If the OP is interested in SM/communications or marketing and her degree isn't directly related to either, then interning is a good idea. She will have an advantage over people with no experience at all if she decides to get into these areas.