To only do voluntary work as an undergraduate student?

[Ahsoka2001]

I'm 20 and and have just finished the second year of my undergraduate degree. Despite choosing a course that isn't exactly known for its job opportunities (Film and Creative Writing!) I've managed to secure two voluntary positions relevant(ish) to my degree.

One is working with a local film society, helping with event set-up at their screenings (outdoor and drive-in) and social media marketing. The second involves writing YouTube descriptions (which will later be put into a forthcoming cookbook manuscript) and social media posts for a local restaurant owner, who I also manage a Facebook group for.

I love both positions (and indeed, my degree itself, which I've achieved a 1st for in both years) and think both can open up a lot of doors, but sometimes I feel a bit bad that I'm not doing any paid work. Money isn't an issue, but I just feel bad that I'm not working "properly" if that makes sense. Most of the work is done from home (film society events aside) and so it feels like I still have a lot of free time on my hands for the summer. Maybe I'm just one of those people who's been conditioned to feel productive constantly...

Do you think it's OK that I technically don't have a "job" per se, even if these unpaid experiences will - in the long run - be a lot more helpul to my career ambitions than a paid job irrelevant to my degree....

Also, there are more ‘official’ ways to gain creative work experience - many universities have societies and volunteering opportunities where you can work alongside professionals and gain a bit of experience in your field. Maybe see if you can speak to anyone at your college and see if anything like this is available. I don’t know about film unfortunately, but I know the university near me has links with the local newspaper and frequently sends journalism students there. Maybe there is something similar!

I wouldn’t put too much stock in the careers team and their advice. While I’m sure some are great, most are decidedly not.

Your university likely hasn't given you this advice as they are quite detached from how the industries work in real life. There is a very large TV Runners group on Facebook and it's clear from a lot of comments from new grads every year that that many lecturers are giving advice that actively hinders graduates chances. For eg telling them to pitch themselves as Directors, Editors, DOPs etc, rather than as Runners.
And the PPs comment about the damage unpaid work does to creative industries by only allowing the privileged few through the door is quite right. People have actively campaigned against it for many years now with the TV industry and on the whole it's been stamped out.

I work in the film industry. If I were you I'd drop the volunteer thing for the resturant. It is, to be blunt, completely irrelevant and won't get you anywhere. It's also fairly exploitative, sorry.

I would leave, and direct that energy towards volunteering to be runners and assistants on films made by students at your university, or at other universities in the city (or even small film companies). There are generally Facebook groups for this kind of thing, or you can contact the schools that work with film students (postgrad as well as undergrad). You'll learn a lot more doing that, and it'll be a lot more relevant on your CV.

This is assuming you want to do film, that is! Have you also thought about getting into some film critics programmes for young people? That's a brilliant way to write and be involved in film communities at the same time.

Another brilliant way to get more involved in the film world is by volunteering at film festivals as a steward or customer service person.

These are the kinds of things, to name a few, that will help your CV and your future prospects. The film society stuff will too, to a level. But your energy and worth is misdirected towards the restaurant one - you don't need it! There are plenty of opportunities out there for emerging filmmakers/producers/etc.

All the best op

I fail to see how bunging a couple of posts a week up on social media and looking at the analytics counts as a job. Moderating a Facebook group also doesn't count as a job.

What exactly do you mean by writing youtube descriptions? Do you transcribe the whole videos?

How often are the film society events?

I wouldn't believe the boss when he says you might get a co-editor mention IF a book is published, eh's clearly taking the piss out of you and the other students.

Curry guy is taking the piss.
That aside – you're 20 and you've only ever had one job???!!! No Saturday jobs, holiday jobs, work between school & uni? My mind is slightly blown.

You are being spectacularly naive. Of course his social media and marketing should be a paid role. By splitting it across 12 of you he’s hiding how involved it really is, but proper marketing is actually a skill, and it’s eroding the value of that job function to hand it to a bunch of students doing it for free. And of course it is exploitative.

How would you feel if you were ‘only’ looking over his takings once a week? Or if you were ‘only’ covering the front of house for a couple of hours a week as a favour? He is benefitting from the time you are putting in. I’m fairly horrified that the university see this as a ‘placement’ - the university I work at pay all of their undergraduate placement students and I cannot see a situation where we would encourage this, let alone set it up for him.

@LostInTheColonies

Curry guy is taking the piss. That aside – you're 20 and you've only ever had one job???!!! No Saturday jobs, holiday jobs, work between school & uni? My mind is slightly blown.

Well, I started applying for paid work as soon as I turned 16 but didn't have any luck so volunteered at a local SCOPE as a shop floor assistant during first year of college. My kitchen porter job I mentioned lasted a long time - about 14 months right up to the end of college, when sadly I had to leave for uni. Between then and the first lockdown, I was trying to find experience more relevant to my studies (hence the film society volunteering) and since COVID it's obviously been so much harder to find things.

Saturday and holiday jobs are almost non-existent in the town I'm from, unfortunately. I know bringing the economy and whatnot into it sounds like an excuse on paper, but in reality it's a very real barrier.

@Gingerkittykat

I fail to see how bunging a couple of posts a week up on social media and looking at the analytics counts as a job. Moderating a Facebook group also doesn't count as a job.

What exactly do you mean by writing youtube descriptions? Do you transcribe the whole videos?

How often are the film society events?

I wouldn't believe the boss when he says you might get a co-editor mention IF a book is published, eh's clearly taking the piss out of you and the other students.

Re the YouTube descriptions - he does recipe videos which I transcribe into step-by-step breakdowns (the sort you find in recipe books). He has every intention of getting the book published, and considering the other things he's achieved during his career (don't want to be too specific for privacy reasons) I definitely believe it could be published.

@rainbowfairylights

I work in the film industry. If I were you I'd drop the volunteer thing for the resturant. It is, to be blunt, completely irrelevant and won't get you anywhere. It's also fairly exploitative, sorry.

I would leave, and direct that energy towards volunteering to be runners and assistants on films made by students at your university, or at other universities in the city (or even small film companies). There are generally Facebook groups for this kind of thing, or you can contact the schools that work with film students (postgrad as well as undergrad). You'll learn a lot more doing that, and it'll be a lot more relevant on your CV.

This is assuming you want to do film, that is! Have you also thought about getting into some film critics programmes for young people? That's a brilliant way to write and be involved in film communities at the same time.

Another brilliant way to get more involved in the film world is by volunteering at film festivals as a steward or customer service person.

These are the kinds of things, to name a few, that will help your CV and your future prospects. The film society stuff will too, to a level. But your energy and worth is misdirected towards the restaurant one - you don't need it! There are plenty of opportunities out there for emerging filmmakers/producers/etc.

I absolutely agree that the restaurant marketing is irrelevant to film - but I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) it was relevant to a potential career in marketing? Especially with my film society marketing experience on top of it?

There's been a couple things I've done with the film society I didn't mention - do you think any of these are helpful? I've worked as a location marshal for a short film project they made with local children (I operated the boom mic and dealt with the public). I also wrote a screenplay for a short film (later published on the uni creative writing blog) that was partially filmed by a couple of my colleagues for their community filmmaking organization. Again, I accompanied them to set and helped set up equipment, etc. It was amazing to see one of my scripts brought to life - just such a shame we didn't finish it!

The owner of a business has a bunch of students doing marketing and other stuff for free?

Fucking hell, he saw you lot coming, didn't he?

Setting aside the ins and outs of the volunteering you’re currently doing, the key question is: what do you want to do after your degree?

The summer holiday, particularly in your 2nd year, is a good chance to get something onto your CV which will help with whatever you want to do when you graduate - whether that’s a job or further study. It doesn’t have to be paid - there are internships for example - but I would say in general yes it does sound as though you’re not making the most of this time available to you.

Perhaps if you can give us some sense of what you want to do career-wise, we can advise on what would be useful to get onto your CV to help with that.

Well, if it weren't me, it would be someone else - someone's gotta do both these roles, and neither of my bosses would pay them for it. I'm really sorry you feel that way

And I'm really sorry that you can't see the real problem that this attitude promotes.

There are many sectors that rely too heavily on exploiting free labour by volunteers, who are often from more privileged backgrounds to be able to afford to work for free, because their parents are covering their living costs, which make it harder for those who aren't in this position and need to work to earn a living, because business owners know they can get away with free or cheap labour. It also deprofessionalises the industries, because people expect lower standards of service etc if it's run by volunteers.

DP is (was obvs, because pandemic) behind the scenes in the music industry and it's the same there. Because there's loads of people who say they will work for free at a festival in return for a free ticket, it's harder to get decent paid work and proper contracts.

But when the work needs doing, these volunteers are often nowhere to be found, because they're pissed or high on drugs, can't or don't want to do hard physical work, or need to go and see their favourite band on another stage.

Not having paid work on your CV won’t be helpful when you complete your degree and seek paid work.

Particularly since your degree course has poor stats for employment and there’s v strong competition and not a ‘level playing field’ for paid work in the creative industries, proliferation of unpaid ‘opportunities’ etc.

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Setting aside the ins and outs of the volunteering you’re currently doing, the key question is: what do you want to do after your degree?

The summer holiday, particularly in your 2nd year, is a good chance to get something onto your CV which will help with whatever you want to do when you graduate - whether that’s a job or further study. It doesn’t have to be paid - there are internships for example - but I would say in general yes it does sound as though you’re not making the most of this time available to you.

Perhaps if you can give us some sense of what you want to do career-wise, we can advise on what would be useful to get onto your CV to help with that.

Despite it not being the focus of my degree, I was considering trying to get into something marketing-based considering the experience these two roles have (seemingly) given me. That could well involve having to do a masters degree first.

Also, for the benefit of everyone following this post - I have two things to mention that I hope will paint me as a better individual (cause right now the judgment seems a bit harsh in places). I came VERY close to getting a 12-month paid placement as an on-air TV planner (basically helping with continuity) - I got to the very final stage but was then rejected by a small margin. The employers assured me that I'd be very suitable to work in that sort of industry, and said it was a case of another extremely suitable candidate gaining the slightest edge over me :-( For what that's worth...

Also (you're all gonna think I'm stupid for this) I was recently offered a paid job doing marketing for a pizza takeaway owner that my film society boss knows (she recommended me) but I actually turned it down partly cause I didn't want to juggle 3 roles (particularly after Year 3 begins) but also cause there were some serious communication issues with the boss at the interview and at the time I didn't feel I could work day-to-day with him.

I might well have made a mistake by turning that role down, but that's life I suppose. You live and learn...

He has every intention of getting the book published, and considering the other things he's achieved during his career (don't want to be too specific for privacy reasons) I definitely believe it could be published.

And he'll be paid for it and you should therefore be paid too.

You don’t need a masters degree - and more debt - to get a marketing job!

Potential employers will ask if your past roles are paid or unpaid.

@Dozer

You don’t need a masters degree - and more debt - to get a marketing job!

Potential employers will ask if your past roles are paid or unpaid.

Will they? This is actually something I was gonna ask, so thanks for that!

Ok, so have you considered applying for a marketing internship? Digital marketing is a good industry to get into and obviously you have some relevant experience. I’d suggest looking for more professional opportunities at bigger companies. It’s quite late now to be applying for this summer but even if you don’t get something for now, you might be able to get something in the coming year.

I’d suggest you also start researching specific employers and graduate opportunities to target, both for internships and graduate jobs.

In short, if I was in your shoes I would spend some time doing research into job opportunities in the marketing industry and then figure out what you need to do to get one - work backwards from there.

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Ok, so have you considered applying for a marketing internship? Digital marketing is a good industry to get into and obviously you have some relevant experience. I’d suggest looking for more professional opportunities at bigger companies. It’s quite late now to be applying for this summer but even if you don’t get something for now, you might be able to get something in the coming year.

I’d suggest you also start researching specific employers and graduate opportunities to target, both for internships and graduate jobs.

In short, if I was in your shoes I would spend some time doing research into job opportunities in the marketing industry and then figure out what you need to do to get one - work backwards from there.

Great advice, thank you - I'll have a look!

Having worked for university careers teams, there are SO many degrees that feed into a marketing career path. Your curry volunteering job really won’t cut it as it is so competitive. If you’re set on volunteering, look at other roles that fill the brief of marketing roles better. We often advertised for local charities / non profits who were looking for short term help with videography, social media marketing, campaign promotions etc. Your university will have a careers team, I think you should speak to them firstly. Also the fact that the curry place has 12!!! Students all working for free screams exploitation.

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat excellent advice!

*I absolutely agree that the restaurant marketing is irrelevant to film - but I thought (correct me if I'm wrong) it was relevant to a potential career in marketing? Especially with my film society marketing experience on top of it?

There's been a couple things I've done with the film society I didn't mention - do you think any of these are helpful? I've worked as a location marshal for a short film project they made with local children (I operated the boom mic and dealt with the public). I also wrote a screenplay for a short film (later published on the uni creative writing blog) that was partially filmed by a couple of my colleagues for their community filmmaking organization. Again, I accompanied them to set and helped set up equipment, etc. It was amazing to see one of my scripts brought to life - just such a shame we didn't finish it!*

@Ahsoka2001 Hmmm... I wouldn't say the restaurant role would get you anywhere with marketing, no. Especially if you want to go into marketing in film. I'd see if you can get a student placement with an independent cinema and focus on marketing there if that's somewhere that interests you.

I think a lot of the film society stuff that you mention here would help yes - try and do more of that though, that's the stuff that will make you look self-motivated and eager to learn in the film world!

@SimonedeBeauvoirscat

Ok, so have you considered applying for a marketing internship? Digital marketing is a good industry to get into and obviously you have some relevant experience. I’d suggest looking for more professional opportunities at bigger companies. It’s quite late now to be applying for this summer but even if you don’t get something for now, you might be able to get something in the coming year.

I’d suggest you also start researching specific employers and graduate opportunities to target, both for internships and graduate jobs.

In short, if I was in your shoes I would spend some time doing research into job opportunities in the marketing industry and then figure out what you need to do to get one - work backwards from there.

This. Allll of this! I also do marketing and that's how I got into it, there's loads out there.