To not understand how people can treat horses like cars?

[IJustLovePirates]

I was looking at ‘active’ threads earlier and inadvertently stumbled across the Tack Room for horse owners. Which just reminded me of something that has bothered me for years....

How do people who profess to love their horses seem to continually swap them for faster/bigger/younger models. I live in a rural area, 8 see the adverts in the local farming supplements about horses that have been ‘outgrown’ . And people looking to upgrade/swap for a better horse.

Surely if you buy a child a horse, it should be like any other pet and you should expect to have it for life?

Or AIBU?

It's often also a lot fairer to the horse to be sold to a more appropriate home when outgrown (which can mean height wise or ability wise).

I used to event and the first horse I started out on was brilliant at the BE80 classes but due to his age and just his ability, it would have been vastly unfair to expect him to perform the same at BE100 classes.

I've always found that quite distressing too OP.
I remember a woman I knew, she had a horse, there were photos of the horse on her facebook, in her house, pictures of her kissing the horse's muzzle...and then she sold it for a new one.
I understand that a horse is a living tool, but still, I can't help but feel sad about that.

I sometimes contemplate getting a new bicycle, but the thought of selling my current one breaks my heart.
So selling a horse will definitely be impossible for me.

@FastFood

I've always found that quite distressing too OP. I remember a woman I knew, she had a horse, there were photos of the horse on her facebook, in her house, pictures of her kissing the horse's muzzle...and then she sold it for a new one. I understand that a horse is a living tool, but still, I can't help but feel sad about that.

I sometimes contemplate getting a new bicycle, but the thought of selling my current one breaks my heart.
So selling a horse will definitely be impossible for me.

Surely you can see the difference between a bike and a horse, though? Your bike, after the initial outlay, isn't going to cost you any more, unless it needs a very occasional repair, and most bike repairs are easily doable yourself.

A horse can't just be kept in your shed, and its regular costs are eyewatering if you don't own your own land and don't do all the daily care turnout, mucking out, poo-picking, exercise etc yourself. A horse needs grazing and some form of shelter, hay or other supplemental feed, bedding, shoeing (even if you keep your horse barefoot, it will need a regular trim from the farrier), grooming, tack, saddler, supplements, vet costs, dentistry costs, vaccinations, worming, insurance -- livery in varying grades of expense if you can't keep your horse on your own land and do all care and exercising yourself etc etc. You'll need your own clothing, boots, hat. You may need to pay for lessons, access to an arena, to have your horse professionally schooled, physio, or transport. If your horse is kept at home, you may need a companion animal.

Even if you are the most sentimentally-attached person in the world, and are, for instance, OK in theory with keeping a horse that your child has outgrown, or which (the horse or your own) age or injury means you are now unable to ride, and /or you have lost your job and are suddenly penniless, you may have to recognise that you cannot keep your horse. And that it may not be in the horse's interest to be kept without company/regular exercise etc.

Surely you can see the difference between a bike and a horse, though? Your bike, after the initial outlay, isn't going to cost you any more, unless it needs a very occasional repair, and most bike repairs are easily doable yourself.

Your bike also doesn't have emotional and physical needs as a herd animal, which are different to the needs of a standard household pet. This is another reason neither the car nor the bike analogy hold up.

Tempted to move mine on this week as they've cost me £600 for essential maintenance 😵‍💫

This also goes along the lines of those who see horses as a commodity and believe they need to be shown 'who's boss' a lot of horse owners don't know anything about a horses language just treat them like outgrown bikes in a shed

That's very inaccurate generalisation.

We bought ponies/horses, outgrew them or didn't click, and sold the on. Or not.

It depended on the match between us as riders & the horses. They are not pets - they are individuals and independent and it's really important to get a good team fit between horse & rider.

I'm not horsey, I ride a bit here and there, I think ponies/ horses are great. What I've noticed with horsey relatives is that they sell ponies on that they've bought or bred because people they know want them for their DC. Horses they dont ride/breed are either put out to pasture or if they are sound they loan or let other people ride them and then they keep them until they die.

Horses seem very vulnerable to me, despite their huge size. They get injured so easily and become basically useless but still cost tons of money to support. My relative has several of these huge equine misfits but she is lucky enough to have land and a big heart. She has even got the digger out and buried a couple of her favourites because she couldn't face seeing them get taken away.

I don't think there's many horsey people that treat their horses like cars, I just think that the financial demands of horses force pragmatism in the face of potential bankruptcy.

@ChainJane

Horses are just tools in the same way a car is a tool. Use it responsibly and it will give you years of service. But people's needs change, circumstances change. Try not to think of a horse as a living thing, think of it as an item that you purchase for a particular purpose - if your needs change, the item you need might change too. As long as people treat the horse to the minimum standard required by law, there's no harm in it.

It's probably just me, but the title "to not understand how people can treat horses like cars" immediately conjured up an image of the traffic warden sticking a parking ticket to Harold Steptoe's horse's face, because it was parked illegally!

I really hope your employer also realises you are just a tool and treats you accordingly.

I know several horse owners, and I don't think many of them are unmoved by selling on a horse, but they need to be kept fit and active, and they need to be in the right home with the right owner and rider.

They are not like dogs and cats. You can love and respect animals without being too sentimental about them, they are intelligent but their feelings and emotions are not the same as ours, however close we get to them.

I really hope your employer also realises you are just a tool and treats you accordingly

Probably. While PP provides value for the company, has suitable skills for the company's work, and is happy and comfortable in the role it's a mutually beneficial situation. If those circumstances changed, PP or company could terminate that relationship to find something that suited better without either party being held in a dead end situation with no benefit to either.

So while I don't think that's how you wanted the analogy to go, the PP is probably treated like a working tool.

@TonTonMacoute

I know several horse owners, and I don't think many of them are unmoved by selling on a horse, but they need to be kept fit and active, and they need to be in the right home with the right owner and rider.

They are not like dogs and cats. You can love and respect animals without being too sentimental about them, they are intelligent but their feelings and emotions are not the same as ours, however close we get to them.

Absolutely, and I think some people on the thread are imagining a horse being sold in the same terms as their beloved Fido being sold (or kidnapped) and suddenly finding themselves distraught and heartbroken among strangers, desperately wondering where their owners are. Most horses are really not equine Greyfriars Bobby.

I just think that the financial demands of horses force pragmatism in the face of potential bankruptcy.

And, as PP have said, the needs of the horse himself/herself. My main pony just loved being ridden, and thrived on it.

They are not like dogs and cats. You can love and respect animals without being too sentimental about them, they are intelligent but their feelings and emotions are not the same as ours

This is such an interesting thread - making me think (longingly) about my old boy. But also about how different horses are to dogs.

Dogs seek to please their human owners. When training a dog, it's important that s/he sees you as the leader of the pack. And if you achieve this, dogs will guard you, defend you, and seek to please you.

Training a horse is very very different. Horses don't seek to please us. They are herd animals, but they are prey rather than hunters, so their first instinct is not defence, but flight.

In training a horse, and learning to ride (well, you never stop learning to ride!) what you have to do is work with the horse. It's an entirely different process to training & living with a dog.

Horses absolutely do get attached to their owners and their field companions and I’m sure some suffer a great deal when they are sold . Horses are more sensitive and intelligent than the average dog . Many years ago I had 2 field mate mares who I had to move in a hurry as the livery yard was closing , they had lived together for about 5 yrs and had adjoining stables as well . Unfortunately I couldn’t get my entire herd (4 animals ) into the same full livery yard so we had to split them up temporarily until spaces became available . They were parted for about 4/5 months and when they were reunited it was as if their soul mate had reappeared , neither of them formed such a bond with any of their other field companions .

@Floralnomad

Horses absolutely do get attached to their owners and their field companions and I’m sure some suffer a great deal when they are sold . Horses are more sensitive and intelligent than the average dog . Many years ago I had 2 field mate mares who I had to move in a hurry as the livery yard was closing , they had lived together for about 5 yrs and had adjoining stables as well . Unfortunately I couldn’t get my entire herd (4 animals ) into the same full livery yard so we had to split them up temporarily until spaces became available . They were parted for about 4/5 months and when they were reunited it was as if their soul mate had reappeared , neither of them formed such a bond with any of their other field companions .

Oh, horses absolutely bond with one another. But in most cases, IME, their bond with longterm equine companions is stronger than with an owner -- I mean, I imagine the horses you're describing would have suffered more from the loss of one another than an owner.

Probably yes , but they were still very attached to us as owners and definitely recognised us when we visited etc after they went from DIY. to full livery . I could do things with my first horse that nobody else could because we had such a special bond , she was very dismissive of other people in general ( extremely anti social with people )

Oh, I'm not denying that horses come to know us humans. My old boy would come to my call from a great distance, even when retired on a farm in a field several hectares large. And when he was hungry, if he was in the field around our house, he's stick his head into my bedroom window. But he was also a flighty chestnut and not like a devoted dog (and I had a devoted Border Collie who would have attacked anyone who approached me if she'd had her way).

Haven’t read all the replies but YABU.

Horses aren’t a pet. And it isn’t just about children outgrowing them either. Horses are often bred for certain jobs and to certain levels of that job, therefore are sold on once they reach their peak and the rider wants to climb to the next level of their discipline.

I love horses, but I only have them to train and compete and if they can’t do a certain job then they’ll have to be sold to free up some money for one that can, I’m not rich, I don’t have 100’s of acres to put horses that I need to sell onto, if I did I would keep every horse I’ve ever had. But as it is, I have to pay livery and can’t justify doing that for an unsuitable horse.

There's a lot of people who are very insistent that horses aren't pets, which is a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold for your own animals, but dismisses the fact that a lot of horse owners see them differently. Not all horse owners are brought up to believe horses should be sold on, and not all owners put their desire to ride, train or compete above their desire to keep the horse they start with. There are lots of different types of people owning horses, and there's good and bad in all types.

I don't see mine as pets, in that I treat them as the large, potentially dangerous herd animals that they are, but I also know they're not "working" animals. They don't have to do a job for me. They do all work, because currently they're all fit and healthy. If one breaks, and needs retirement, that's what they'll get. I adjust my expectations and competitive desires to the horses I have, because that's a different type of training challenge and I enjoy it. They won't be sold on in my lifetime, unless I end up bankrupt or something. I don't have a problem with people who do sell on responsibly, but it's disingenuous to suggest that all horsey types view horses the same way.

I have friends who keep retired horses or small ponies for whom their horses are absolutely pets and some even share the OP's views about people who do sell their animals. Different strokes for different folks and all that - no two circumstances are really the same.

This was posted recently on a Facebook group that I’m in , pretty much sums up my views

@Floralnomad

This was posted recently on a Facebook group that I’m in , pretty much sums up my views

I think that’s very noble, @Floralnomad, but it sidesteps stuff like ‘We kept the pony when I lost my job and had to choose between keeping the pony and feeding and clothing the DC.’

It’s easy to say ‘money isn’t everything’ when it’s a matter of cutting out treats to keep a pony you consider ‘family’, but less so if the human members of the family are going without to fund it.

@DoorAjar fair comment , but most horses and ponies in this country are not sold because of financial hardship , they are sold because they are no longer big enough/ fit for purpose etc .

I don't have a problem with people who do sell on responsibly, but it's disingenuous to suggest that all horsey types view horses the same way.

Of course, @CaptainThe95thRifles - but what I take issue with is the OP's pretty ignorant lumping together of all horse owners (well, I used to be one). And even if one does have to sell on, or give away, it doesn't mean that horse owner thinks of that horse as if it's a car.

It's a false analogy, and misrepresents horse owners - recreational ones, particularly. That's what I object to, and why @IJustLovePirates is BU.