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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand how people can treat horses like cars?

123 replies

IJustLovePirates · 13/07/2021 14:03

I was looking at ‘active’ threads earlier and inadvertently stumbled across the Tack Room for horse owners. Which just reminded me of something that has bothered me for years....

How do people who profess to love their horses seem to continually swap them for faster/bigger/younger models. I live in a rural area, 8 see the adverts in the local farming supplements about horses that have been ‘outgrown’ . And people looking to upgrade/swap for a better horse.

Surely if you buy a child a horse, it should be like any other pet and you should expect to have it for life?

Or AIBU?

OP posts:
ShortBacknSides · 14/07/2021 11:37

I live in a rural area, 8 see the adverts in the local farming supplements about horses that have been ‘outgrown’ . And people looking to upgrade/swap for a better horse.

YABU.

It's interesting to read such lack of knowledge from someone who lives in a rural area ... Maybe learn about your neighbourhood, rather than judging people?

Horses aren't pets. They're working animals.

It's actually dangerous for the horse/pony for a child to ride the same pony through to the child's adulthood. As we grow taller & heavier, usually we move to a bigger stronger horse.

People who work with animals everyday tend to have a far less sentimental attitude towards them. Which is usually far better for the animal - I always respected the individual characters of my horses & ponies when I had them - they weren't my pets, we were a team working on difficult stuff!

CaptainThe95thRifles · 14/07/2021 11:37

I should've proof read that. You can't expect to regularly visit a pony you've sold on. Bloody odd if you're selling the same pony on regularly!

ShortBacknSides · 14/07/2021 11:38

Adding to say: although my lifestyle/job/life has moved on from the glorious time when all I did was ride ponies and horses, my main horse died with us (at 25) was never sold on, and 30 years later, I still dream about him, and miss his presence.

But he was always himself, not a pet.

ShortBacknSides · 14/07/2021 11:41

And I was brought up with “A puppy is for life. Not just for Christmas” I just think that horses should be the same.

But they're not, and actually, as I reflect on your opinions @IJustLovePirates to my mind, it's pretty insulting to think of horses that way. THey're not dogs or cats; they're not pets, and actually, it's not respectful of them, nor healthy for them, to be treated as pets.

Floralnomad · 14/07/2021 12:11

@ShortBacknSides

And I was brought up with “A puppy is for life. Not just for Christmas” I just think that horses should be the same.

But they're not, and actually, as I reflect on your opinions @IJustLovePirates to my mind, it's pretty insulting to think of horses that way. THey're not dogs or cats; they're not pets, and actually, it's not respectful of them, nor healthy for them, to be treated as pets.

That is your opinion @ShortBacknSides , I’m a horse owner and have been for 40+ years and I entirely agree with the OP . To me selling one of my horses would have been / is no different to selling my dog . Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the OP is not decisively wrong in her views .
CaptainThe95thRifles · 14/07/2021 12:18

For plenty of people, horses are pets though. Not everyone rides / drives / works their horses, and provided those horses get proper herd turnout in decent circumstances (an extensive track system or proper, natural pasture), to keep them mentally and physically healthy, there's nothing wrong with that. Some "pet" horses have better, healthier lives than some working horses - I'm specifically thinking of those that spend most of their lives in stables with limited turnout / company, to protect their value as a competition horse.

There's good and bad in every aspect of life and every style of horse ownership.

Laiste · 14/07/2021 12:23

It's a decision you know you're going to have to make when you buy a pony for a child. Even if somehow you didn't think about it, by the time you get as far as having owned one for a couple of years you will have ploughed through the issues of

vets bills £££,
dentistry £££
feeding issues £££ (loads of them on special diets),
regular shoeing £££ (if you want them on the road),
tack £££,
lame spells (can't ride them),
pasture upkeep £££
livery/stable £££
and god knows what else.

and you realise that despite the best of intentions it's very few who have the money, time and space to keep every horse they ever buy and give it a good life.

Another thing OP - horses don't always get on together. You could buy a larger pony intending to keep and pay for (and exercise) the smaller one forever and find you can't keep them in the same field because they detest each other Hmm

maxelly · 14/07/2021 12:30

On the topic of 'aren't the children upset when their pony is sold', well, yes sometimes, but horse-y children are usually brought up with a slightly different attitude to horses and other working animals (such as farm animals) than to 'house pets' - it's kind of a known fact that sometimes they need to move on because they need to do a job/fulfill their purpose, and so while they may be sad or miss the pony it's not the same thing as if your dog or cat dies or you weren't able to keep them.

To be clear, this is NOT saying that the children are in any way allowed to think of the animal as a disposable commodity or that their welfare doesn't matter, quite the reverse, for a farmer or someone who relies on their animals for their livelihood the care of the animals always, always comes first, even before that of the people (which is why I imagine it's really hard being a farmer's wife or child!), it used to be the case (and still is in some parts of the world) that if your plough horse or dairy cow or other working animal got sick or died, your whole family could literally starve and I think the attitude persists even to this day. I'm only a leisure rider myself but was brought up on the first principle of horsemanship (and taught my children the same), which is you always look after the horse before you look after yourself. So for instance if on coming back hot and tired from a ride, if you were caught getting yourself a drink before you'd taken your pony to water, you'd get an almighty bollocking from your parent or teacher. On cold or wet days you might want to stay indoors but your animals need to be fed and mucked out so it isn't a choice - in exchange for them working for you, you need to take care of them. Like I say, a different relationship to say a dog where the connection is perhaps more emotional/familial but also less like work on both sides of the equation! People are equating the horse/rider relationship to a marriage, for me its perhaps closer to a business partnership, you have to look after one another and get on well together, you have to communicate well etc., quite often (but not always!) you are friends as well as partners, if one party gets sick or old it's right that the other ensures they are cared for, but it isn't something that necessarily can or should go on forever...

Of course there are bad horsey people out there and you do get people that weren't 'raised right', that do think of all kinds of animals as commodities/playthings - small point but for instance, it drives me mad when kids hand their ponies over to a parent or groom after their ride and aren't interested in making sure the pony is comfortable, but that isn't proper horsemanship and so in my mind anyway they aren't 'real' riders anyway Grin

KingdomScrolls · 14/07/2021 12:33

MIL is very horsey and of the same opinion OP. Her last horse she had for more than thirty years, so by the end was very elderly, could no longer be ridden but she cared for her in the same way, she now has two she rescued in a sorry state and it transpires one has an underlying health condition, they will be with her for life.

Laiste · 14/07/2021 12:46

@KingdomScrolls

MIL is very horsey and of the same opinion OP. Her last horse she had for more than thirty years, so by the end was very elderly, could no longer be ridden but she cared for her in the same way, she now has two she rescued in a sorry state and it transpires one has an underlying health condition, they will be with her for life.
This is the ideal i guess. A fully grown adult buying their first horse which goes on to 'fit' perfectly together in size and temperament for years well beyond either the human or the horse wanting the riding bit.

I think thatt's rare to find though.

TheFnozwhowasmirage · 14/07/2021 12:46

A thing that non horse people don't consider,is that the horse world is extremely small. Everyone knows everyone else,and I'd say that 70% of horses and ponies being rehomed ( loaned or sold) go through word of mouth rather than ever being advertised. So a large proportion of owners know who and what type of home their horse or pony will be going to. When we needed a new pony for Dd2,( she didn't click with Dd1's pony) I was offered 7 ponies in one week,all by people who knew us,none were advertised.
Dd1 got a new horse last month,loaned to us after Dd1's boss recommended her to the owner. We could never afford to buy a horse like him,he's probably worth over £10k in the current market,and he will never be for sale. We still have DD1's retired eventer on loan,who is 27. We took his shoes off when the new horse arrived and he was happy for a week until he started getting bored and gloomy as he wasn't going out anywhere. So now he's my hack. I don't enjoy riding,but he likes hacking,so that's what we'll do.
People with horses and livestock are bought up with the expectation that you do what is best for your animal,not for you,and that they and their welfare comes first.

Hoppinggreen · 14/07/2021 12:49

@CaptainThe95thRifles

You can't expect to visit a pony you've sold on regularly though Shock If you want to do that, you should put them out on loan. Lots of owners won't even have previous owners on their social media, let alone let them visit.

If you sell a horse on, you lose control over its future. That's the reality - but it doesn't necessarily mean the horse will suffer, or that it's wrong to sell on. People have to make the right decision for them and for their horses.

No I agree and the lovely people who bought my pony could have said no at any point but they used to send yearly updates and I visited around once a year for the first few years. When she died they let me know too. I didn’t expect it but was very grateful
ShortBacknSides · 14/07/2021 12:54

@maxelly Yes you sum up the way I was brought up to think about horses, and the way most of my friends at Pony Club & in the showing world (we did a lot of hacking classes at agricultural shows) thought about their horses.

That doesn't mean horses are only a commodity - when my main pony started to become really successful in hacking classes, a well-known showing stable wanted to buy him, but no way was I selling him.

But he wasn't my pet. I think that's just a false comparison. Horses are different. They just are.

KingdomScrolls · 14/07/2021 12:56

@Laiste when MIL was young and my mum did the same they worked/volunteered as stable girls, they got paid little but got to ride other people's horses, especially those on full livery and got used to the grooming, mucking out etc. It meant by the time MIL was late teens she bought an adult sized horse from someone at the stables who didn't ride anymore, another she kept until the end. DM grew out of that stage and never owned a horse of her own as she recognised the level of responsibility and cost. I think this was common then rather than buying children ponies, but then I don't come from a wealthy background!

SmokeyDevil · 14/07/2021 12:58

I don't mind kids getting bigger ponies. They grow, you can't keep them on a Shetland when they are 15, and the Shetland might as well be teaching another kid how to ride.

I don't like it when adults proclaim to love their horse, but as soon as its no longer fast enough, it's sold and they buy a younger horse than can compete. Then they get pissy if the person who buys it doesn't treat it the way they would. You lost control when you sold it, you didn't care then, just wanted the money. Hmm

I'll never sell mine. He can't do what I bought him for and he won't live as long as I expected, but I don't trust anyone but me to give him the life he deserves.

Bigassbeebuzzbuzz · 14/07/2021 13:13

You know what op it wasnt something I thought about until I read you post. At first I thought your right, what's going on?
After reading replies on here it's now quite obvious and I feel a bit silly to of not thought of it in that way before.

alloalloallo · 14/07/2021 13:38

I don’t think horses are pets.

I love my horses dearly, but when DD outgrew her first ridden pony, both in terms of that she was physically to big for him and what she wanted to do, we sold him to another child who was just starting out.

He was a perfect first pony and still young enough to have many years of work ahead. I didn’t have, or know anyone, with children small enough to ride him and he was far too young and talented to retire - plus, he loved having a job, retiring him wouldn’t have been a good choice for him. He’s now off teaching other young children about his dirty stops and liking for rolling in mud and living his best life. Good first ridden ponies are like rocking horse poo round here, we sold him through word of mouth. I see him from time to time when we’re out at events and we have a chat and I’m friends with the new owners on FB, it’s nice to see what he’s up to but he’s not ours anymore.

We do have a retiree - my DD’s 2nd pony has arthritis which is too severe to be ridden so we had to retire her, she’s an old lady who was at the end of her ridden career - she’s loving life as a retiree, but it doesn’t suit them all. She has a home with us for life.

My DD’s pony that she rides - she’s a perfect all rounder, DD will never outgrow her, so unless something major happens, she’ll also be with us for life.

honeybeetheoneandonly · 14/07/2021 13:48

I bought a horse a few years before I had kids. We were a fab team. He loved what we did. You could see his mind working things out, you could see his eyes lighting up and his soul singing. It was such a pleasure to see. Then I became pregnant and he was more or less left in a field. I mean he was looked after but had nothing to do anymore. He was still young as well. I guess they are content to just be "a horse in a field" but if you want to see their heart and soul sing then there is so much more to it. Have you ever seen a sheep dog passionately doing its job? Imagine your sheep dog is still young but you decided to sell all your sheep. Would you keep the sheep dog as a pet or would you try and find a Shepard in need of a sheep dog?

alloalloallo · 14/07/2021 15:02

Imagine your sheep dog is still young but you decided to sell all your sheep. Would you keep the sheep dog as a pet or would you try and find a Shepard in need of a sheep dog?

Exactly

Loving an animal includes making the right choices on its behalf.

A friend has recently sold her horse - she was slightly missold so she was overhorsed, they didn’t click and she was losing her confidence. The horse has gone on to find the perfect home with someone slightly more experienced and is doing well.

My friend loved her horse, but it just wasn’t working. Better it has gone on to a better home than languishing in a field

Laiste · 14/07/2021 15:08

[quote KingdomScrolls]@Laiste when MIL was young and my mum did the same they worked/volunteered as stable girls, they got paid little but got to ride other people's horses, especially those on full livery and got used to the grooming, mucking out etc. It meant by the time MIL was late teens she bought an adult sized horse from someone at the stables who didn't ride anymore, another she kept until the end. DM grew out of that stage and never owned a horse of her own as she recognised the level of responsibility and cost. I think this was common then rather than buying children ponies, but then I don't come from a wealthy background![/quote]
Eldest DD did that :) From age 12, worked at the stables down the lane doing everything to pay for her riding lessons (which i'd been paying for until then since she was 7), plus exercise everything. She was a skinny mini so she rode the tiny ones, the big hunters, and everything in between Grin My 2 sisters also had lessons and so did i and boy did it get expensive.

I did work out the cost of all the lessons and safety gear compared to actually buying a pony at one point! Never would have though. Only my eldest was really that keen enough to get up at silly o'clock and get up to her knees in horse poo Grin

Most of the families in this village that ride are riding other people's horses or sharing ect. The next village to us, however, is very much a 2.5 Kids And A Pony Each In The Field type village. Very very posh Grin

Laiste · 14/07/2021 15:09

Her 2 sisters that should have said. (i haven't got any :( )

Iquitit · 14/07/2021 15:24

@alloalloallo

Imagine your sheep dog is still young but you decided to sell all your sheep. Would you keep the sheep dog as a pet or would you try and find a Shepard in need of a sheep dog?

Exactly

Loving an animal includes making the right choices on its behalf.

A friend has recently sold her horse - she was slightly missold so she was overhorsed, they didn’t click and she was losing her confidence. The horse has gone on to find the perfect home with someone slightly more experienced and is doing well.

My friend loved her horse, but it just wasn’t working. Better it has gone on to a better home than languishing in a field

And your friend may (or maybe already has) provide a home for a horse that someone has outgrown in terms of experience, because they want to compete and do more, and the horse they have doesn't, and is better matched to someone like your friend who wants something quieter, maybe without as much potential, but that doesn't matter. If I were in the market to be looking for a new one I'd be looking at something that's been well schooled but just hasn't made the grade for higher level SJ or dressage and although a lovely and willing horse, doesn't have the attributes to compete at affiliated level. There's people want both the go getter and talented horse that can do more and those that are quieter and with less scope. Think both the horses and the riders are better off with a partner that suits them than being resigned to a bad ridden relationship for life, and some horses don't like being retired, since they were domesticated horses have usually had a 'job', in the wild they have a 'job' within the herd, it's rare to find a horse that flourishes in total retirement imo, though mine seems to, I make sure I keep his mind active by doing things from the floor with him or he gets destructive, trashing fences etc.
TheSaucepanMan · 14/07/2021 15:27

YANBU, have 2 horses and they are both now retired I would never sell them simply because I can no longer ride them. I love them endlessly. The yard near us is forever swapping and changing horses it's no wonder some of them have such anxiety issues.

TheSaucepanMan · 14/07/2021 15:29

This also goes along the lines of those who see horses as a commodity and believe they need to be shown 'who's boss' a lot of horse owners don't know anything about a horses language just treat them like outgrown bikes in a shed.

alloalloallo · 14/07/2021 15:52

and some horses don't like being retired, since they were domesticated horses have usually had a 'job', in the wild they have a 'job' within the herd, it's rare to find a horse that flourishes in total retirement imo, though mine seems to

Yes, I agree.

When my old lady retired I wasn’t sure how well she’d cope with it. She had been a carriage horse in a previous life and thrived on work so she did struggle initially and we did consider putting her to sleep. Not because I don’t love her, or don’t give a shit now she’s no use to me. It’s precisely because we do love her that we carefully considered what was best for her.

She settled, we have a routine that we stick to and she’s happy. She likes the routine of work, so we had to find something to take the place of it. We go for a walk down the lane, DD has been doing some Liberty work with her, she goes for a ride in the lorry when DD goes out on her pony. When her arthritis gets too much for her, we’ll have to make tough decisions for her again.

Owning animals is all about making decisions that you believe is best for them, however hard or frowned upon they may be. I work with my vet, farrier and chiropractor and take their expert advice and opinions on board, it’s no one else’s business