Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

I'm mixed. I don't think politics should be in sport.

The problem is it already is in sport. It will remain in sport until we as a nation can either neutralise or talk sense into the kinds of vermin who were spouting off on social media about Rashford, Saka and Sancho. As long as the football industry and the government put some a premium on football and as long as the culture of racism isn't tackled it is political, whether you like it or not.

Within that culture its entirely right that those people on the receiving end of this vile abuse seek to protect and defend themselves and educate those around them.

You may or may not think taking the knee is the best way to do this and that's an arguable point. But saying politics shouldn't be in sport is a bit like saying politics shouldn't be in the workplace. Politics is how we navigate and seek to improve our lives, its not just something that happens in Westminster.

@FunnyInjury

I dont think anyone will come on a thread and admit they're racist. Lots of people who say shit about taking a knee etc are just too dense to realise they're saying racist shit.

I'd love to wave a wand a make racism disappear as I get so pissed off with the shit. Every. Single. Day.

I'm white and 50 in a couple of years but I have two teenage boys that live with me. My white ds and his black friend. They're lives are the same but the treatment they receive from others, their interactions etc. So different at times. SM is the worst. They both have a few hundred followers but ds never gets called names or worse (the fucking disgusting racist memes)

My lads take the knee before games. The whole team/coaches etc. The sport in general is very supportive and fans never boo. I think its perfectly legitimate exercise and will carry on for years. If it makes even 1 fan reconsider their racist words/actions each time then its worth it imo.

Well, tbh, on another thread a poster has called anti-racists troublemakers so she might as well have come out with what she really thinks. Plus the poster yesterday (hopefully now with a perma ban) saying racist things about penalty takers. It kind of becomes obvious when a thread gets a live one.

No problem with it, fully support it and respect those who do it.

I'm in the USA, and I can tell you what right-wingers tell me. That it shows disrespect for the flag. HOWEVER...those same people who want respect for the flag also applauded the disgusting display when our Capitol was overrun with insurrectionists on January 6. ALL of those carrying flags carried either the Confederate flag, a Trump flag, or both. They tore down American flags and attacked Capitol Police officers with the flag poles. They are all about clinging to the outward expressions of "Patriotism" while stomping its spirit to death daily. Since you ask.

Prefer not too I don't tend to follow the crowd, I feel racism can be tackled more effectively in other ways and "the knee" is just a gesture.
Racism is vile and needs to be tackled from all angles and this means every area of society needs some introspection. Its hard to berate someone not of colour for using the "N" word in public or the media when it still is widely used in music by black musicians of standing such as Kanye West aswell as underground artists. Not standing for such language anywhere is the only way to rid society of this negativity.

Racism is not politics.

No problem with it. Anything that can highlight and try to prevent racism has to be a good thing.

Some (all?) of the white folk who don't like the kneeling usually draw the (false) equivalence between what the England players are doing, and the political aims of the BLM movement in America. That is, of course, utter utter crap, as the team have been very clear that's not what they're about, but there we are. Now all the racist cretins who are abusing the players are very much making the point that racism is a problem, and we are going to have to do something to combat it.

And all the politicians who have been apologists for the 'fans' who have booed taking the knee (looking at you Johnson, Patel etc) are being made to look rather foolish now they've had to condemn the very behaviour their stance has encouraged. I wonder what action they'll take now. (Not holding my breath though....)

I don't have a problem with it. But I don't think it has the full symbolism here that it does in the USA, where it's a protest during the national anthem that is played at most sports games.

And if it becomes expected that all players take the knee, which seems to be happening, then does it not become meaningless?

’Its hard to berate someone not of colour for using the "N" word in public or the media when it still is widely used in music by black musicians of standing such as Kanye West aswell as underground artists’

Really? No, really? Really?

@Ihatefish

Because: A. It’s a subservient pose B. It has links (yes I know not solely) with a vile Marxist movement C. It just seems yet another diversity thing to do that in reality doesn’t affect my day to day existence. There’s a lot of causes we are supposed to be allies of I tend to concentrate on ones that impact me, quite frankly I could spend every second of every day attending this that or the other adorned with various ribbons and lanyards. D. Connected to C I’m fed up with the hypocrisy and self fulfilling prophecies and victim hood attached to many such causes. I’m fed up of seeing people destroying statues of someone who did something hundreds of years ago whilst wearing clothes made by children in sweat shops etc. E. I’m fed up of being bullied into what I should think. I know racism is abhorrent but don’t tell me how I should express that thought

All of these reasons.

Middle aged white American. I fully support the right of anyone to “take a knee”

Having spoken with some people who object, it is not because they object to the cause, but because they view the particular moment of the national anthem as sacred and a matter of respect for the people both current and historical who have made sacrifices to defend our right to free speech in the first place. In simpler terms, the protest happening during those 2 minutes is the problem because those 2 minutes are too important.

I don’t have a problem with a stand against racism in sport.

However I distract my children away from that part of the coverage as I don’t want to explain racism to them - they have friends of all colours and I don’t want them to start viewing some friends as ‘other’ or as victims.

1. Nothing
2. Taking the knee is just fine by me. I'd do it, if I was a sports person

I quite like that footballers take the knee because it really pisses off the racist fans. I would never take the knee myself as I don’t like being pressured into that kind of thing. I also don’t like clapping for the NHS, flying flags, wearing political badges or t-shirts etc. I don’t mind other people doing it but I don’t want to do it i

@HmmmmmmInteresting, your post exactly sums up for me why I don’t agree with this kind of unthinking virtue signalling that very quickly morphs into a baying mob.

And BLM a "vile Marxist movement" ? Someone needs to stop reading the Daily Heil

I personally don't have a problem with it but I think generally the problem is virtue signalling.

"Signalling" is far less effective/meaningful than practical action such as making sure your team and workplace are appropriately diverse. I do the latter and don't expect any kind of recognition for it.

[quote Flayn]@FightingtheFoo - theft, murder and rape - crimes often black men are suspected, convicted for.

I am not sure.[/quote]
Eh??? What a racist thing to say. There are men (and women) of every race who have committed murder.

Men of every race commit rape.

Fucking hell.

I think if you want to protest racism then do it, don't posture about it & call it done.

I don't think anyone on the England team calls it done. There's a lot else going on regarding racism in football (I've already linked to two of the programmes), and the team is playing a leading role in that.

I have no issue per se but if done all the time the meaning is lost, especially when millionaire footballers living a life of privilege are involved. Far better to properly stamp out racism in football, some clubs have more of a problem admittedly but ive been at a game where so called fans did monkey impressions for an opposing player.

Footballers getting involved hands on (like Marcus Rashford) in poor communities of all ethnicities would be another thing. I just see a 5 second gesture not real action

Another point is, you can kneel all day long, but racist pricks will all be racist pricks. If you want to kick racism out of sport, the governing body and police need to come up with a system to identify then at matches, prosecute and ban them, social media companies need to come up with ways to identify and make people less anonymous online giving free reign to say what they want. Everyone of us, footballer and fans need to call it out and not accept anything less than respect. But I think that's easier said than done.

@Lweji

Racism is not politics but politics is one of the ways you tackle racism.

I would argue that tackling racism goes beyond politics anyway. It’s something that affects the whole of society.

But when people say they don’t like politics mixed with sport/music/entertainment what they usually actually mean is that they have a very comfortable worldview and don’t like having their boat rocked.

I agree with Skral's point above about it being a great thing for football specifically given there is so much racial abuse associated with football. I think