Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Also yes I would agree that the BLM movement particularly toward police brutality is an American concept to me as an Irish person. Our Gardai are not without their faults, but we do not have armed guard or a history of systemic brutality towards POC. So while marching in solidarity with Americans is a positive thing to do, taking the knee wouldn't happen at a football match here.

@LindaEllen

There's nothing wrong with it, but I feel that people (mainly sports teams) 'take the knee' for show, while doing precisely fuck all to actually fight racism. It's a token gesture that means nothing - and all members of said teams are pressured to do it, even if they may not want to (because on its own it achieves nothing).

thanks, my sentiments exactly it was like clapping for the n.h.s, nothing changes unless people make the changes.

As a very small child I remember my grandmother in her eighties curtseying and tugging her forelock when we met the "Lady of the Manor" . A young woman in her twenties. We were on holiday from London visiting rural Ireland,the woman while completely ignoring my grandmother accepted it as her due as a member of the gentry. I vowed that no matter what I would never do that and I won't ever make a subservient gesture to anyone.

I do not judge people who do but I just can't

No idea why you asked white people. Many black people also object to the gesture.

I have no problem with it. In 1968 two black athletes did this at the Mexico Olympics. It doesn't seem that things have improved all that much since then.

I'm white and would proudly take the knee.

It feels like an empty gesture to me. Lots of people taking the knee, however, racism just as bad as ever.
Racism is awful and more needs to be done to get rid of it, there is no place for it in our world, taking the knee just feels like wearing a cancer pin badge - nice to acknowledge but not really much use.
Take the knee, don’t take the knee, I really don’t care, what I do care about is the racism.

@Bollindger

I won't do it because it does nothing. It is for effect, to make some feel better and they then DO NOTHING else. I taught my children skin colour means nothing. Laying the blame for past hurts will not change things it stirs up bad feelings. It also is causing a noticeable divide as per this thread.

This is incorrect though. White people have been responsible for the persecution of black people and other non-white races throughout history. White supremacy very much existed in the US and still unfortunately has followers of such ideology today. If you’re white, there is no amount of denial or mental gymnastics that will exempt you from being part of a racist structure and having privilege. It would be great if skin colour didn’t matter, but sadly that isn’t the world we live in. I’m white, btw

@TedMullins

No problem with it and anyone who does is a racist in denial tbh.

Aren't there black footballers that have refused to do it because they say its,a meaningless gesture that us just a sop to consciences when more concrete things need doing. Are they racist too?

Maybe British people have their own history and taking the knee means something different to them.

@LindaEllen

There's nothing wrong with it, but I feel that people (mainly sports teams) 'take the knee' for show, while doing precisely fuck all to actually fight racism. It's a token gesture that means nothing - and all members of said teams are pressured to do it, even if they may not want to (because on its own it achieves nothing).

Footballers take the knee because the racism in football is so widespread and so evident. When you have hundreds of people in the stands shouting racial abuse, team members taking the knee is a powerful gesture. Especially when the black players' white teammates are joining them in doing so.

And for those saying that there are better ways of fighting racism, many of those footballers are doing those things too. They can exist together. It's not an either/or.

Please do not be so ignorant to assume all white people are the same.

I have zero issue with athletes taking the knee and I fully support them in doing so, the backlash that Rashford, Saka and Sancho shows that racism in sport is rampant, taking the knee is a way to stand against that.

More needs to be done but it's a start.

@Flayn

1. What is the problem with taking the knee

1. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

There is nothing wrong with taking the knee. And quite honestly I don't know why so many people are offended by it. If you're anti-racist and believe in equality for all then there should be no issue with people choosing to take the knee.

@Waxonwaxoff0

White person here. I have no problem. Anyone who does needs to have a word.

I've not been in a situation where it's been suggested. But I wouldn't like it. It's a deferential gesture, I'm not really sure who I'd be deferring to.

My only issue with it is the fact it is necessary at all.

The players will continue to do it whilst they experience racism. When racism stops they will no longer need to do it.

The FA and UEFA are toothless and impotent. They do nothing. Match officials and stewards should be empowered and supported to eject racists from the stadia.

Booing and jeering is part of the theatre and pantomime of live sport. By all means boo poor sportsmanship or dangerous play. But intimidating players because of the colour of their skin? It's unacceptable and needs dealing with.

The FA needs to do something - more cctv to catch offenders, limited no of fans in so racist chanters can be nailed , any bad sportsmanship egbooing ban them.
Nothing seems to change.

Why isn’t it just called kneeling?
Why “taking the knee”? Taking it where?

This white person has no problem with it at all. I support anyone who takes the knee. It's their right to protest in any way they like.
It's got people talking about racism.

No problem for me! I think it's a great initiative. Glad that it's caught on.

‘If you understand the origins of it in the NFL then it isn't meant to be subservient. The original player started off by remaining seated during the national anthem, but changed to kneeling as a way of showing respect to armed forces whilst still expressing his protest against the government and institutional racism. Other sportspeople in the US raise fists or link arms.’

I did not know this. Thanks for the explanation. I thought people were taking the knee because that was how George Floyd died. It seemed really upsetting, and as others have said, as it is a sign of subjugation in the U.K., I didn’t realise at it was meant to be a mark of respect for armed forces. I thought it was a memorial to someone who had been murdered. I think I have been really confused as to the meaning.

@DancesWithTortoises

Someone I know who isn't keen thinks it's "too American" and not something that comes naturally to Brits. He'd prefer standing with bowed head.

I have no strong feelings either way and think it should be up to the individual.

Same here. Both opinions.

It’s not a coincidence that there were England fans who booed the players taking the knee and that England players have had vile racist abuse directed at them online today.

No problem as an act of defiance. It is courageous and provocative. Problem as an act of compliance as it has become at football.
Athletes should protest in whichever ways they see fit. As should non-athletes. They should not be promoted as morally superior role-models though.

Ok. So please tell me apart from the violence it stored up with status vandalised, what has taking the knee done?
I mean there was still booing at the Euro final, people were still rude.
If instead of taking a knee £1 had been paid into a fund, to help people we would have something useful to show from a protest. Silences and kneeling cost nothing and are forgotten the second people have finishef doing it. Putting your money where your mouth is can provide results.

Only racists have a problem with this. Most of which a white - granted. There is not other reason, other than they are racists.

But the vast majority of white people, do not have a problem with it, and many actively support it.

Lots of people taking the knee, because racism just as bad as ever.

Fixed it for you.