Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

White here, I'd prefer it if more people did it.

Things need to change

I was out for dinner last week and two of the group did have a problem with "taking the knee" one was white and the other wasn't. Of the six of us round the table two of us argued against their views but not to any satisfaction

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

If you understand the origins of it in the NFL then it isn't meant to be subservient. The original player started off by remaining seated during the national anthem, but changed to kneeling as a way of showing respect to armed forces whilst still expressing his protest against the government and institutional racism. Other sportspeople in the US raise fists or link arms.

I don't have a problem with it, and I think the behaviour of some on social media today shows why it is important to footballers. Seeing this stuff directed at them and their teammates is a constant occurrence and I agree that more needs to be done than verbal condemnations.

My only concern at sports events when a whole team do it is this. Is everyone doing it voluntarily? If I was in a situation where I was asked to, I probably would. But it’s meaningless if any sports men or women are doing it under duress

I think it’s great but the sort people who think racism is some great ideology aren’t going to moved by the error of their ways by footballers taking the knee. But have start somewhere I suppose , calling it out rather ignoring the issue.

I’ve heard people complain it’s ‘too Americanized’ but I suspect that’s just an excuse. They’d rather not see it at all, then they don’t have to think about it

To me BLM is a U.S. fight against the shooting of black people by armed American police. Taking on the issue of the right to bear arms etc, a right in the US, is imv destined to fail. We have problems if our own but they are very different from American ones. Our police aren't routinely armed ( unlike almost every other country).
Black lives matter is about black people dying rather than racism.

There’s something very powerful about using what usually a gesture of submission to highlight - and object to - people being subjugated.

For me it’s because it is intrinsically entwined with BLM. An organisation that is by its own admission on its UK website and go fund me is designed to destroy capitalism, eliminate the nuclear family and defund the police.

I also have some sympathy with the it’s too American argument, the whole BLM thing last year came about due to the murder of a black American criminal by a nasty, corrupt white policeman. While I have no doubt that racism still exists in the Uk the culture is very different.

To answer your last question any other gesture would be great and it being in support of Sterling’s anti racism campaign or Kick it Out would be excellent too.

I have no problem with it - applaud it and would do it if I was on a rally or anywhere the occasion merits it. It doesn't strike me as subservience and I'm fed up of right ring tories twats trying to suggest that BLM is a Marxist movement to try and scare people into thinking it's a communist gesture although they never seem to have an issue with facism. I'd quite like to move some police finding towards youth support schemes. I'm white and fed up that some people don't 'see colour' or think there is a problem with racism here.

1. No problem with people taking the knee, I would if the opportunity presented itself.

1. I personally don't think they are doing enough to battle racism. These twats on twitter and the like should be tracked down and publicly banned from all future games for all UK based sport (and whatever ptherlegal action the police can take)

Did I miss something? Yesterday the players didn’t take a knee during the national anthem, and therefore were not showing “submission to the Queen/Crown”. They did it afterwards, once they’d taken their positions.

Or are some posters just getting outraged without actually bothering to find out what actually happened?

Here in the UK historically we have stood up as a sign of respect - for monarchs, for women etc.

It seems odd to adopt what is, here in the UK, an historically subservient pose, to show respect.

It's just different perspectives, different culture, history etc.

It jars with some because of that historical, cultural dissonance.

That and BLM, with the capital letters, isn't necessarily what people think it is.

And then racism.

There's nothing wrong with it, but I feel that people (mainly sports teams) 'take the knee' for show, while doing precisely fuck all to actually fight racism. It's a token gesture that means nothing - and all members of said teams are pressured to do it, even if they may not want to (because on its own it achieves nothing).

Hmmm. When it first started I was a supporter. But feel it’s run it’s course and is just paying lip service.

I'm white as are practically all of my friends. I never hear any of them commenting one way or the other so I suspect they don't care. It certainly doesn't make any difference in our lives.

I don't think any of them would go onto one knee though.

I think the gesture should be inclusive i.e a stand against racism as a whole. The kneeling started because of George floyd and BLM and highlighted a point.
However, it should be a gesture against all racism and not linked to a political movement either.

I won't do it because it does nothing. It is for effect, to make some feel better and they then DO NOTHING else.
I taught my children skin colour means nothing. Laying the blame for past hurts will not change things it stirs up bad feelings.
It also is causing a noticeable divide as per this thread.

To me, it is bit "not right" because you kneel before god, so it like equaling people with god, I think it doesnt sit right with religious people and there could be better choice of gesture to express the same message.

The black players are suffering racial abuse that the white players never will. That is the point of it.

That . I’d also add the word still, as in ‘The black players are still^ suffering racial abuse that the white players never will.’ This shit has been going on for decades.

No problem with it and anyone who does is a racist in denial tbh.

The only problem I have with it is: if I get down on one knee I might well need help to get back up again.

So ban anyone who show racism from sporting events.
Yes even players.

@warmandtoasty2day

too american and smacks of being submissive, so the gesture can jog along. There are other ways of anknowlwedging and tackling racism.

Great, how are you acknowledging and tackling racism instead? Happy to support other initiatives as well!

55 year old white woman living in Italy. I think it's a fabulous gesture.
The majority of the Italians I know don't agree. They're white too.