Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Posters have also claimed BLM want to destroy the nuclear family, well a assume you are all in favour of reunification of refugee families and allowing people arrived here to bring their families here?

I am opposed to defunding the police, austerity measures and the Conservative party.

While it is important to make a distinction between the BLM organisation and movement, the wider movement did seem to be supporting defunding the U.K. police, which seems crazy following austerity.

@Secondbellini

That’s a really bizarre analogy to the lost sheep. The point of that parable is that God will try and get back the one sinner. It is meant to explain the workings of God.

Black people are not sinners and people supporting anti-racism are not God.

That is white saviourism on steroids.

Disagree.

There is barely a verse in the Bible which cannot be interpreted in a number of ways - this is what makes it versatile, and also how it can be misinterpreted or even corrupted, sadly.

While it does mean that God will do all She can to get that final "lost sheep" back, and it can also be read as "this one is at greater risk, therefore needs greater care" (after all - when the shepherd leaves the flock, the others are at risk, too - just not as great and not as immediate).

Also - Jesus wasn't white. He was Middle-Eastern, and while we don't know what he looked like - he wasn't white.

BLM the organisation said they wanted to disrupt the nuclear family not destroy it. It was a queer theory thing.

Nobody said Jesus was white.

@MarchXX Or perhaps stop reading the BLM website grin where they proudly explain their Marxist stance, or they did when I had a read of it in the summer, when they 'peacefully protested', burning down businesses, committing violent acts and destroying communities, driving the police out (Portland) and taking over.

Except the majority of these violent acts were started by White Supremacists bussed in - this isn't a 'conspiracy', there are actual police reports and a COURT report that even reference the FBI following and identifying the trouble-makers. If you want links, I can provide them. One is from an actual court website.

@Kendodd

Posters have also claimed BLM want to destroy the nuclear family, well a assume you are all in favour of reunification of refugee families and allowing people arrived here to bring their families here?

I mean, it was on their webpage and they were pretty proud of it. It’s fair to point that out!

Honestly don’t get the refugee reference. Presumably the whole family would be refugees if the situation was real? I don’t think this is the ‘gotcha’ point you think it is

Am searching my archive for the links for standby, but while I am I came across this, @MarchXX . About a Minneapolis cop who created a fire himself.

And while you can interpret the bible anyway you want, the traditional Christian interpretation is that the shepherd represents God.

I think this problem comes up again and again in the move from American to British identity politics.

Religious people in the U.K. are disproportionately not white British, but we live in a very secular society. There is a really poor understanding of all the major religions and the values and perspectives of their adherents.

'I would not kneel for anyone'

I still find this one bizarre
It's the black players who started kneeling. They are making themselves subservient if you want to see it that way (which is not how it was intended. It is a respectful act of defiance)
All the players black and white kneeling together is a powerful and moving act of solidarity to me. I can't see anyone kneeling 'for' anyone else.

And they aren't asking anyone to kneel with them (bit impractical on a football terrace) just to be silent, applaud or at the very least not to boo.
Is that so very hard for people to go along with? Because they don't like kneeling as a gesture?? That's a very weak reason for booing as is thinking BLM are communists.

Except the majority of these violent acts were started by White Supremacists bussed in - this isn't a 'conspiracy', there are actual police reports and a COURT report that even reference the FBI following and identifying the trouble-makers. If you want links, I can provide them. One is from an actual court website

Honestly most of them seem to be white lefties destroying black neighbourhoods. The mug shots alone .... l

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

That's a funny way to announce that you're a racist.

White supremacists were bussed in but most of the violence is from Antifa as they are the vast majority involved.

There also seems to be a big difference in the U.K. in that they don’t seem to see arson as being up their with murder in the way we do in the U.K. justice system.

It is all irrelevant anyway because antifa and BLM are not the same thing, and BLM movement in the U.K. is not responsible for the autonomous antifa zones in the US.

@UsedUpUsername

Except the majority of these violent acts were started by White Supremacists bussed in - this isn't a 'conspiracy', there are actual police reports and a COURT report that even reference the FBI following and identifying the trouble-makers. If you want links, I can provide them. One is from an actual court website

Honestly most of them seem to be white lefties destroying black neighbourhoods. The mug shots alone .... l

white lefties

How do you know if they are lefties or not?

@NeonDreams

Am searching my archive for the links for standby, but while I am I came across this, *@MarchXX* . About a Minneapolis cop who created a fire himself.

How can anyone trust any link you post? This has already been widely debunked:

www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/man-taken-to-hospital-following-officer-involved-shooting/89-25d97815-0590-4f6a-989d-58967dd8047f

That's a funny way to announce that you're a racist.

More than 800 messages on, and still we get stupid and goady comments like this

@TedMullins

It isn’t an acceptable statement, it’s obfuscating and dismissing the specific cause of black equality. This has been explained and written about a lot by people who explain very eloquently why ‘all lives matter’ is unacceptable. Would you turn up at a breast cancer fundraiser shouting ALL CANCER MATTERS! No, didn’t think so.

No but you could start a group for another cancer without being shot down. You see people saying "white lives matter" are accused of being racist and the anger over the bursaries for white working class boys, they are simply not allowed. So either we allow and encourage black/white/Chinese/Hispanic lives matter for all or we don't for any.

Rather than asking white people why they won’t take the knee, why don’t you go after Twitter and the rest of SM that does nothing to stop the vile abuse? Why are there no consequences for the racists and the xenophobic stuff that post such abhorrent things?
I hear someone being racist, homophobic or any other type of bullying I challenge it irl. Why are these giant companies not taking any criminal action against the culprits?

Always gets a bit heated with biblical references but I don't see that interpretation as 'white saviour'
God is doing the saving in the parable and he doesn't have a race.

The parable means that God cares for all his people but that he will especially seek and care for those who are lost. As he said I did not come for the righteous but for sinners. The healthy have no need of a Dr.

So if you take it that it means black people are suffering and are the most in need then the analogy works.

The problem with the analogy is that it might lead to a conclusion that black people are the sinners in need of Gods salvation whereas the person proposing it meant they are the most oppressed and in need of activism, action etc. NOT that they are sinners. Suggesting black people are uniquely sinful would be racist and the opposite of what the analogy was trying to explain.

I still don't think you can twist it to make it 'white saviour' though.

onlyhereforthecake
Exactly, and still these people think that theirs is the correct way to tackle racism.

How do you know if they are lefties or not?

They are part of antifa. This is a ridiculous question. Like asking if KKK members are white supremacists 🙄

Ooof because it’s much easier to come on here and call individuals racist because they don’t agree with a controversial gesture than actually do something about racism.

@onlyhereforthecake

That's a funny way to announce that you're a racist.

More than 800 messages on, and still we get stupid and goady comments like this

Indeed and all it does is harden my resolve. I actually missed the England goal on Sunday because I refuse to watch the players take a knee and therefore had the TV off I'm not going to boo the gesture but neither am I going to actively partake in watching it like certain adverts. Fortunately for live TV it is predicable when it occurs when it is shoehorned into the highlights it is more difficult.

[quote NeonDreams]**@MarchXX* Or perhaps stop reading the BLM website grin where they proudly explain their Marxist stance, or they did when I had a read of it in the summer, when they 'peacefully protested', burning down businesses, committing violent acts and destroying communities, driving the police out (Portland) and taking over.*

Except the majority of these violent acts were started by White Supremacists bussed in - this isn't a 'conspiracy', there are actual police reports and a COURT report that even reference the FBI following and identifying the trouble-makers. If you want links, I can provide them. One is from an actual court website.[/quote]
@NeonDreams, have you checked out the BLM website?

Did you have a look at it last summer when they wrote about their Marxist aims and were encouraging rioting (peaceful protests lol) in communities around USA?

Maybe we watched different video footage, but what I saw and heard was extremist groups (antifa featured prominently) destroying businesses and communities apparently with full support from local politicians. It was shocking that in Portland the police agreed to leave and let extremist groups take over the community downtown. Surely you saw that happening?

Is it any wonder people do not want to be associated with a movement (BLM) which encouraged such violence and hatred against people of a certain colour (and anyone else who protested against it). I would call that racism, wouldn't you? That they advocate "bending the knee" in sport therefore is something I would not condone or support.

Racism is wrong whomever it is directed against and accusing people of "white supremacy" is extremely insulting. It's lazy too because it shuts down conversation and open debate. But, maybe that's the point.

No doubt you will have me pegged as a white supremacist but I also carry the slurs "TERF" and "transphobe" apparently because I believe that (are you sitting down)...

... women have vaginas and are Adult Human Females.

The white saviour issue isn’t because God is white! The white saviour issue is because the explanation is addressed to people who say ‘all lives matter’ who are usually white, in an attempt to get them to view themselves as the shepherd and black people as the sheep.

And black people are not suffering because they are insufficiently righteous. They are not spiritually lost.

If anything it is the racists who are the lost sheep.