Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

@HmmmmmmInteresting

You can’t write ‘all lives matter’ then in the next sentence say ‘I’m not racist’ and expect to be taken seriously.

You couldn't make it up
Kudos to you for having the energy to even bother addressing that

What is this the thought police? of course that is an acceptable statement. Otherwise we are just putting one group up against another. Seriously opinions like this is what causes people like me to turn off during these gesture politics.

The more people support anti-racist initiatives, the more those who oppose them will scream and rant about communism and statues and make it easier for the rest of us to eliminate them from our lives

@Smileyaxolotl1

neon dreams And I also challenge you to find anything racist I have said. Just because you support violent, bullying organisations which cause division you think everyone else should and they are racist if they don’t. None of it helps black people at all.

More lies. I don't support any violent or bullying organisations. The only one who is causing division is you and your shameless blatant LIES and misrepresentation. You've been corrected over and over again. At least have some dignity and self respect to stop repeating your debunked LIES.

@Smileyaxolotl1

Tedmullins Are you trying to say that New Zealand isn’t a capitalist country? You leftists really are ridiculous.

You leftists really are ridiculous.

And here we go with the 'leftist' tag. I knew you'd out yourself eventually.

It isn’t an acceptable statement, it’s obfuscating and dismissing the specific cause of black equality. This has been explained and written about a lot by people who explain very eloquently why ‘all lives matter’ is unacceptable. Would you turn up at a breast cancer fundraiser shouting ALL CANCER MATTERS! No, didn’t think so.

all mustlovegin Tue 13-Jul-21 09:35:09
’Can I ask, do you think that if toxic US identity politics and its associated inflammatory gestures had not infiltrated into UK life lately, the penalty footballers would have received so much abuse?Rather than tackling racism, it's severely damaging relations. Personally, I don't remember this being an issue or ever happening in previous World Cups, or any other games.’

You don’t follow football then.

There is a very, very long history of black players being abused while on the pitch or off it. Things have come a long way from the English football grounds of the 1980s where bananas were thrown onto pitches at black players and monkey gestures were made at them. The abuse wasn’t limited to non white players. Football grounds were hostile places to non white fans. The domestic leagues have improved things with fans being ejected from the stadium for racist abuse and subject to lifetime bans from football grounds for this behaviour. There has been a lot of work done to make football grounds places that black fans feel safe to go and to take their children to.

Though things have improved during matches in the U.K., the England team still has had to go and play matches in countries where their black players are racially abused by fans for the length of the match. Fifa has been glacially slow to take action but is starting to do so.

World Cup hosts Russia in 2018
www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/17/world-cup-russia-charged-fan-racism-france-friendly

Bulgaria 2019
www.theguardian.com/football/2019/oct/29/bulgaria-ordered-to-play-next-two-matches-behind-closed-doors-over-england-racism

Within the U.K., there’s been success keeping racist abuse out of stadia but online abuse of black players is rife. It’s regular and vitriolic. It’s something that’s not limited to black footballers. Have a quick google and you’ll see black actors, black politicians and black sportspeople subjected to racist abuse online. Many have taken social media breaks because of it or spoken out about it.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55887106

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57003222

It’s hard to imagine how anyone isn’t aware of ‘this being an issue’ in football.

Neondreams

Your little mate Ted even admitted that BLMs aims were as I stated - don’t know why you are so desperate to deny them since you support them so vehemently.
Again you can provide no evidence whatsoever of any lies or racism from me - such a clear case of projection from you it’s really quite embarrassing.

@Smileyaxolotl1

Neondreams

Your little mate Ted even admitted that BLMs aims were as I stated - don’t know why you are so desperate to deny them since you support them so vehemently.
Again you can provide no evidence whatsoever of any lies or racism from me - such a clear case of projection from you it’s really quite embarrassing.

Another blatant lie. He did not such thing. You really are embarrassing yourself with your desperate lies and distortions and misrepresentations, as the FACTS I posted proves.

It would be great if we could all avoid this thread being deleted.

@TedMullins

It isn’t an acceptable statement, it’s obfuscating and dismissing the specific cause of black equality. This has been explained and written about a lot by people who explain very eloquently why ‘all lives matter’ is unacceptable. Would you turn up at a breast cancer fundraiser shouting ALL CANCER MATTERS! No, didn’t think so.

Exactly right. I found a notepad copy/paste I had kept for reference. These explain adequately why 'All Lives Matter' is offensive.

"For the 'All lives matter' folks: When the Boston marathon was bombed, everybody's profile picture went "Boston strong" - nobody said "all cities are strong"! When Las Vegas shooting happened, people changed their profiles "stand with Vegas" - nobody popped up and said "well what about the people that got shot in my city"! Have you ever seen someone counter a "breast cancer" post with "what about colon cancer"? But for some reason if someone says "black lives matter" it turns into all inclusive "all lives matter". It's not an either/or proclamation. When there is a crisis we have always rallied around that particular group. It doesn't discredit or diminish any other group it just brings awareness and support to the group that needs attention.

Imagine your child dying and you are giving a eulogy explaining what your own child meant to you and how special your child was, then someone grabs the mic and says "actually all children are special...." Yes. That's what "all lives matter" sounds like. Embarrassing.

If you are Christian, and are so triggered by black people that you can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter" then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15. Don't have it handy? Then let me summarize;
there are 100 sheep but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one. The 99: "But...what about us? Don't we matter?" Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is."

[quote redcarbluecar]@SchadenfreudePersonified yes, you did say that! I don't think one gesture is particularly different to another (I don't get the idea of 'kneeling before God' but only because I assume that active religious faith relies on everyday conduct rather than a specific physical movement) but I agreed with your rope/pond analogy.[/quote]
Totally agree that active religious faith should lead to appropriate everyday conduct. Without that, then faith is just empty gesture and virtuous meaningless rhetoric.

But within those parameters, we are all equal in the sight of God, so no one person should have to kneel before another. (I have never met the Queen - i might find all of my proud boasts flying out of the window if Her Maj came round )

And enough with the lies about CHAZ. The facts show a completely different story; www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53218448

www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/15/dont-listen-to-fox-heres-whats-really-going-on-in-seattles-protest-zone-321507

Imagine your child dying and you are giving a eulogy explaining what your own child meant to you and how special your child was, then someone grabs the mic and says "actually all children are special...." Yes. That's what "all lives matter" sounds like. Embarrassing.

If you are Christian, and are so triggered by black people that you can't hear #BlackLivesMatter without feeling the need to respond with a criticism that "All Lives Matter" then crack open your Bible and hit up Luke 15. Don't have it handy? Then let me summarize;
there are 100 sheep but one goes missing. Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one. The 99: "But...what about us? Don't we matter?" Of course the 99 still matter, but they're not the ones in danger.

The one is."

Brilliant analogies Neon.

And as a practising Christian (and one who leads funerals) I am embarrassed to have thought of neither of these myself. (However, I will be plagiarising them.)

Thank you!

It just depends how you word stuff

'Destroy capitalism' if that means share wealth amongst the world's population, reduce poverty and increase access to healthcare instead of just further enrich Saudi oil sheiks, American tech entrepreneurs and Russian oligarchs then I'd be happy with that

Destroy the nuclear family if that means accepting that single parents and gay people can be good parents and bring up children just as well then yes I agree with that too. Maybe having a 'father figure' is not the be all and end all if he is a drunk, gambler or an abuser.

Defund the police. Not 'get rid of the police' but question whether the money we spend on catching criminals might be better diverted to tackling the causes of crime as Tony Blair that notorious Marxist said in 1993. If we invested in education, social opportunities, creating jobs in poor communities there would be a lot less crime to spend money tackling.

Not so objectionable without the dog whistle language

It would be good if we could keep this thread.

That’s a really bizarre analogy to the lost sheep. The point of that parable is that God will try and get back the one sinner. It is meant to explain the workings of God.

Black people are not sinners and people supporting anti-racism are not God.

That is white saviourism on steroids.

@chaosrabbitland If you aren't racist (obvs don't know you to know if you are not) but if you aren't, why would you say '' fuck the lot of it'' (ie. making a stand against racism) just because you disagreed with people on here?
You're either against racism or you aren't, and basically going' 'Well I'm not going to be now and fuck it all because of what you said to me!' '
Reads like a toddler having a sulk just because they don't like the answer.

‘Defund the police. Not 'get rid of the police' but question whether the money we spend on catching criminals might be better diverted to tackling the causes of crime as Tony Blair that notorious Marxist said in 1993.’

But police budgets have already been massively cut.

They are already really struggling to deal with DV and child protection as a consequence. A lot of crime needs a robust response across multiple agencies, including the police, not just shuffling inadequate sums of money between thinly stretched services.

Well...

1. White people aren´t borgs, of one single mind and opinion.
2. Getting on your knees is a symbol of meekness and subservience. I think it is a weird gesture to choose.
3. I´m slightly suspicious of wokish fashions.

Apart from that, each is free to do as he/she wants.

I'm not sure if this link has been posted yet, but this is the page where the 'disrupt the family' stuff comes from:
web.archive.org/web/20200408020723/blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

It can definitely be read in a way that is just about accepting different family structures and having a closer community. That might well be the intent! But having it there with all the queer theory nonsense, 'cisgender privilege' and so on is enough to make people wary. Drag queen story time and the dildo monkey guy were 'disruptive'.

That is white saviourism on steroids

👍

As for being against BLM because they want to 'defund the police' the only defunding of the police I've seen has come from the Tory party. Are you anti Tory as well? Genuine question.

It is very embarrassing

I would not kneel for anyone, regardless of colour

@Chanjer

That is white saviourism on steroids

👍

😂😂😂

I don’t watch sports but I would be annoyed af at players making political statements at the game.

So I would hope those who are annoyed simply stop watching and find a better hobby.