Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Oddly I think more people are on board with it since hearing idiots booing on the pitch and after how disgracefully those players were treated after Sunday's game.
Like sticking to fingers up at racist twats.

I feel a bit sorry though for anyone who feels taking the knee makes them appear subservient. This would never occur to me.

Polka dots, we are on social media!
Taking the knee was spread through social media.

I hope this thread is not deleted. There have been some really interesting and informative posts. I feel much more positively towards footballers taking the knee as a consequence.

I would take my steer from what BAME people feel is appropriate. If they think it’s of value and it matters to them I’d support it. If they felt it wasn’t the right action then I wouldn’t. I think it’s about listening to the people we want to support and them telling us what will help them.

They are all kneeling down together. I have no idea why anyone is interpreting taking the knee as black people wanting white people to bow to them. That's a bizarre interpretation of a black man kneeling on an American football pitch.

Colin Kaepernick originally sat for the US anthem as he said he could not show respect for a nation that was oppressing black people and he converted it to kneeling as a more respectful gesture but still a protest after listening to US army veterans.

It's a respectful non violent protest not a dominance/ subservient thing at all.

@ThanksIGotItInMorrisons

Taking the knee is political. Football and politics have no place being mixed together like this. Unfortunately due to some very unpleasant and bullying mob yob like behaviour, blm has become somewhat tainted. I do recall seeing a’ burn, loot,murder’ reference. I also recall seeing mobs of people bullying victims eating their dinner to raise their arm in support of blm. And those who refused ( as is their right) were then bullied and threatened and coerced by those very same people. Not something I would want to be a part of. You cannot wipe out history. It has happened. It is past. What is important is what , if anything, we learn from it and how we change and /or adapt our actions/thinking after the fact. Bullying people is not the way to do it. Defacing public buildings and statues (whether you agree or not) is also not the way to do it. Looting buildings and threading people to agree with you is ALSO not the way to do it. It’s not just ‘white people’ who need to learn adapt or change. It’s all of us. And I know I will be totally slated for this, however , if you have to put a colour in front of the statement ‘... lives matter’ then that makes you the racist. All lives matter. You can’t wipe out white people for actions taken hundreds of years ago by unpleasant uneducated people who happened to be white. That doesn’t automatically make the white people of today racist. It’s about time all the bs stopped. Let’s accept we are all human and get on with each other as a species , rather than a ‘race’. I’ve not got time for virtue signalling taking the knee. I am not subservient and would never do so. And you can’t threaten and bully me into it either. I have managed to live my entire life without being racist and don’t need to be ‘educated’ and forced into an action which doesn’t hold the meaning originally intended anymore.

You can’t write ‘all lives matter’ then in the next sentence say ‘I’m not racist’ and expect to be taken seriously.

For people who don’t know the meaning of being on your knees!!!

www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/on-your-knees

Maybe, in the case of football, if you don't want to take the knee (which is fine, is your right and does not make you a racist), you just need to stand in silence to show your solidarity with the message.

Rather than booing the players who make the gesture.

And, looking at it another way. A lot of people are saying it's enough now. Time to stop the knee gesture. But if that gesture was, say, standing up for disabled rights, or even something simple like 'we believe the BBC shouldn't be charging pensioners for a TV licence', I doubt there would be any boos even if they did it for years. It that's the case then those who do boo it, who do think it needs to stop, need to ask themselves why.

So, in answer to the question. As a white person I have absolutely no problem with people taking the knee. I don't (and won't) do it because I see it as subservient when I think all people should hold their heads high. But I will stand silently supporting anyone in your right to do it and, should remarks/boos or anything else be made, I'll make it very clear where I stand.

@TedMullins

I’m still wondering when opposing racism became ‘politics’ rather than just ‘being a decent person’.

This.

And that taking the knee as a sign of solidarity is a subservient gesture compared to real events that happened in the not too distant past to real people.

Some very sensitive people about

You can’t write ‘all lives matter’ then in the next sentence say ‘I’m not racist’ and expect to be taken seriously.

You couldn't make it up
Kudos to you for having the energy to even bother addressing that

@Subbaxeo

Those who say politics should be kept out of sport-maybe that will happen when racism is kept out of sport.

👏 👏

@MountIronSolo01

No problem here. White British.

@ghostyslovesheets

I have no issue with it - I support it

I want to reclaim this lazy and dismissive 'virtue signalling' insult as well - being opposed to racism IS virtuous and I have no problem with people signalling they hold that virtue.

Reading my way back and only just saw this. Amen! to your post. Having virtue is a GOOD thing. Signalling that virtue is even BETTER!

So according to people on this thread, things worse than actual racism, which impacts the lives of non white people every day and in extreme circumstances leads to their deaths, are:

• Marxism
• feeling ‘subservient’
• being called a racist
• making gestures that don’t directly cause change
• being ‘woke’
• people stating that white supremacy and racism exists
• graffiti on statues

Seriously. Seriously?! I’m honestly embarrassed to share a country and breathe the same air as people who think those things are more worthy of directing your anger at than centuries of deeply ingrained racial prejudice.

Why is signalling that you are virtuous a good thing?

That is contrary to the beliefs of a lot of religious teaching, surely?

I don’t think footballers taking the knee are virtue signalling anyway. That isn’t what they are trying to do.

As a white person, I commend these players for using their profile and platform to continue to raise awareness, discussion and debate on the cancer within society and individuals that is racism.

As for it being inappropriate to mix sport and politics - the Springbok Tour of 1981 and the continuing protests of many New Zealanders to Apartheid during the tour was not without effect, if nothing else, keeping the injustice of Apartheid front and centre, and showing solidarity with those who were working to dismantle it.

Tedmullins

No one has said that those things are ‘worse than racism’ - you are just making things up now.

And this thread has shown exactly why it is such a poor gesture to show support for people fighting racism. It is divisive and causes people like you to dismiss people as racist because they dare to hold a different opinion to you about a gesture.

No one has ever objected to arm holding or kick it out - if it is just racism why didn’t people object to these campaigns?

Asking white people for a response is fine imo

It doesn't anticipate you're all going to answer the same it just anticipates that your experiences and reasoning may be different

Nobody who has a problem with taking the knee has articulated a reason for it that isn’t racist or a ridiculous straw man whipped up by the right wing press. The very fact people think a gesture that signals fighting racism is political or divisive is inherently, blatantly, screamingly racist! “Yes please fight racism but only in the way I, a white person, deep acceptable.”

I think you will find plenty of people objected to Kick it Out, in fact.

Secondbellini

I think the gesture is virtue signalling - I agree that the footballers tend to act as well so for them it isn’t.

The problem with virtue signalling is that in many cases it is done by companies and organisations as a way to be seen to be doing something. Ben and Jerry’s is a classic example - virtue signalling about immigration on Twitter while committing human rights abuses against migrants.

White person

There isn't one.

The most I've heard from people who think it's ridiculous is that it's a football game, not a political campaign.

But there isn't one.

I mean, there’s nothing ‘wrong’ with it.
It’s just a bit pointless.
Realistically, how is kneeling down going to change anything?

Tedmullins

How many times!
It is associated with a Marxist organisation who want to destroy capitalism, destroy the nuclear family and are anti-police. You may be fine with those things, many are not.