Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

"We tend to dislike/fear/envy those who are different to us"

As you prove so very often.

I think its absolutley bizarre that " question for white people" is seen as acceptable.

[quote NeonDreams]@chaosrabbitland Again, how do you know SHE listed herself as that? But I do recall your nic and that you are a rabid hater of Meghan, so I'm not surprised by your assumptions.[/quote]
iv never said i hated her . she would have to have personally done something to me for that ,as iv never met the woman thats impossible . she and her husband both come accross as a dislikable pair , she may well not have listed herself as white , but on the other hand you dont know she didnt , its what you want to believe , and i havent been bitten by a fox so i dont have rabies just to let you know , i sugggest you take some unwind time and a rest from your assumptions !!

@sadperson16

I think its absolutley bizarre that " question for white people" is seen as acceptable.

yep , but if your white theres no such thing as racism , we are only capable of it , but never ever victims of it

sadperson16

"I think its absolutley bizarre that " question for white people" is seen as acceptable."

Yes, an irony lost on many posting on this thread

Can I ask, do you think that if toxic US identity politics and its associated inflammatory gestures had not infiltrated into UK life lately, the penalty footballers would have received so much abuse?
Rather than tackling racism, it's severely damaging relations.

Personally, I don't remember this being an issue or ever happening in previous World Cups, or any other games.

No problem with it.

(Though personally I can't get back up 😁).

I have no problem with taking the knee if it feels right to the people doing it, it feels like an American thing to me and I dislike how we seem to copy everything from the US but that's just a personal pet peeve.

I think the best way for athletes to beat racism is just to be decent, kind, positive human beings. It just shows the racists up as nasty, ignorant, fools then. And I don't think the England guys could be doing a better job than they are on that score.

I thought it was really great the team made a call that they were all going to do something to demonstrate their support for their BAME team mates. They are also making that support clear in their interviews with the press. Footballers are constantly getting grief about how they should be good role models. The current England team doubtless have members who have done some not so great things but as a team this feels like them being great role models. They are demonstrating to kids who look up to them that being inclusive is the right thing to do. It may not make any difference to the adult shouting abuse from the stands but it might well influence their son or daughter to grow up with some different ideas than their parents. It also might make people feel a little more confident about confronting those making racist comments in their families or workplaces and making it clear they don’t agree and don’t think it’s acceptable. I certainly can’t see how it’s hurting anyone so struggle with why people dislike it so much. If they don’t feel comfortable with the idea of doing it themselves that’s also fine. There are other ways to demonstrate your support of equality and your intolerance of racism if you don’t feel comfortable taking the knee and no one should be made to feel they have to do it. Even after reading most of the thread though I still don’t get why it bothers anyone that the football team are choosing to take the knee as their demonstration of support as anti racists.

Also, many would only 'take a knee' for:

God
The Queen
Their Family or loved ones

They wouldn't subserviently kneel or 'bow their head' to anyone else. Why should they? Why should they be coerced to do it and stand out if they don't?

Yes agree @whatkatydid2013

@Elsa888

Humans are tribal by nature. We gravitate towards those who are similar to ourselves whether it be by race, colour, religion, academic ability, political orientation etc etc. We tend to dislike/fear/envy those who are different to us.

By nature, agreed. But we are not fucking Neanderthals. If we are feeling an irrational discomfort about certain types of people, we can stop, and we can think and we can challenge those base caveman feelings. Try it.

I also agree with PP that politics and activism (aka 'causes') should be kept well away from:

Sports
Advertising/Marketing
Business
Entertainment (Films)

Yes, people are fed up of others pushing ideas down their throats and trying to 'educate' them and react increasingly negatively to all of it

Im sorry but I feel much of it is an empty gesture, along with clapping etc. I'd prefer racism to be tackled firstly in our various parliaments/assemblies and also in our justice system. Actually do something about it. I know my post will be unpopular, but taking the knee is rather pointless. Engage with your MP or write to your local police re racism. Having said this if people want to take the knee, then thats fine, but personally I don't see the point and I also find it strange to fight racism with a gesture of subservience.

I’m white and don’t like people taking the knee. It looks like they are subservient, not protesting. I don’t have a problem with it but think it would be better if they stood tall, not half on the ground and bowed their heads like you do to honour it welcome someone.

I just think it’s more meaningful and appropriate

I don't mind people taking the knee in a free world people can do what they want, I do have a problem with gesture politics. And when freedom to not take the knee is so heavily criticized it's like when we are all expected to wear rainbow badges during LGBT month and those that don't get a mild form of harassment as to why they aren't. If players want to make a stand at the beginning of the match then that is fine it just doesn't need to be on the highlights on match of the day. Because it isn't a highlight. I have a problem with the black lives matter movement and the defund the police (I think they focus on a single race and whilst the perceived opinion on Mumsnet is that is fine go and start your own Indian lives matter or white lives matter group especially in the latter case you get screams of racism like the scholarships for white working class boys that were rejected and the Burnley white lives matter plane incident). I have an issue with the horrendous abuse of Priti patel and other BAME Tory MPs. It is important to separate racist abuse of any ethnicity (and God knows how many generalisations of white people you see on Mumsnet which is apparently fine and yes I report them too) which is abhorrent from critisms of the taking of the knee. Either way I'm not expecting to be in the majority on Mumsnet. It is a pretty unique space and at best the polls show taking the knee has about 50% support.

@orangecinnamon21

I have no idea. I don't watch football, i just assumed because they are doing it during national anthem in USA and that's where this protest originated.

Must love gin

You are seriously going to blame 'American identity politics' for racial abuse in football??
It's not like it's a new thing
John Barnes was getting bananas thrown at him on the pitch in the 1980s
That is victim blaming
Taking the knee is a response to racial abuse and not the cause of it.

chaosrabbitland

I assume from your other posts that you are being sarcastic but BLM and other proponents of CRT do believe this.
They have rejected the definition of racism that the world had used for hundreds of years and said that racism only occurs where the victim lacks power in that society.

Apparent so. It's a virtue signalling exercise, it doesn't mean the person taking the knee is actually doing something productive to eradicate racism.

Just a general question. When did signalling virtue become a 'bad' thing? Sometimes we say things and do things because they are the right thing to say, the right thing to do.

Are these people suggesting with should signal a lack of virtue?

When did signalling morals, decency, compassion and knowing right from wrong become a 'bad' thing?

@Nuffaluff

Answer from white person:

1. There is no problem with taking the knee.

Please do not assume that all white people think the same.

Exactly.

It's not pointless in that we are discussing it!
It's in the news
Politicians are responding to it

They had stood by and quietly taken it for decades and had campaigns like kick it out and nothing really changed

They are doing something that is making an impact and the fact that white players and the whole team are doing it together and the manager supports it is a breakthrough.

@Smileyaxolotl1 Racism stems from the victim having a lack of power. This, is the definition that has been used for hundreds of years.