Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

@Smileyaxolotl1

For me it’s because it is intrinsically entwined with BLM. An organisation that is by its own admission on its UK website and go fund me is designed to destroy capitalism, eliminate the nuclear family and defund the police.

I also have some sympathy with the it’s too American argument, the whole BLM thing last year came about due to the murder of a black American criminal by a nasty, corrupt white policeman. While I have no doubt that racism still exists in the Uk the culture is very different.

To answer your last question any other gesture would be great and it being in support of Sterling’s anti racism campaign or Kick it Out would be excellent too.

@Smileyaxolotl1 due to the murder of a black American criminal

Oh here we go with the VICTIM-BLAMING!

@Elys3

Why wouldn’t you want to show your support and solidarity with fellow players though? A unified team all taking the knee is a powerful symbol that racist bullshit won’t be tolerated.

Is it? Maybe you think it an empty gesture? Maybe you think it a gesture of support for BLM and disagree with them rather than racism? Maybe you consider it divisive? Maybe you think there are simply better ways to tackle racism?

I don't have a problem with taking the knee. But it's been done enough now.

We need to move onto finding other ways to address the problem. The football penalties issue of 2 days ago has proved that unfortunately we aren't making much progress. And clearly a new tact is required.

@Turdibacious

I think because historically, in Europe anyway, it's a gesture of subservience, like taking an oath of fealty to an overlord. So to me it seems an odd gesture to choose.

I would prefer to see people taking a stand against racism

Yes this.

Taking the knee is a meaningless gesture. It's a way of saying "look at me and how socially aware I am" whilst not actually doing anything.

I would prefer athletes protest racism by their actions. Give a large part of their huge incomes to charities that help reduce inequality. Set up scholarships and the like for disadvantaged children. Acknowledge that inequality is not just a black/white issue, there is a lot of grey in between.

As a society we need to accept that some people are racist overtly, some racist but in less obvious ways. Ultimately, everyone is racist to some degree whether they admit it or not. Once we accept that fact we can try to address the reasons behind this. Shouting at racist people, insulting them and "cancelling" them will not change their minds because shouting, insulting and "cancelling" never changes anyone's mind on anything. People might shut up and go away, but they become more certain of their views.

smiley you said time and time again. That is ne study and it doesn't say single parent families cause inequality. Poverty has many root causes. There are many rich single parent families.

But here you go. Right back at ya:

theconversation.com/parents-and-children-living-in-poverty-have-the-same-aspirations-as-those-who-are-better-off-103897

the whole BLM thing last year

Did it?
I supposed that's when it hit mainstream UK.

Oh, ad from your own apparently water tight research

*Because the study had recruited in big cities, many of the parents had lower incomes or levels of education and a high proportion were black or Hispanic American.

This was important because of the challenges these fathers face with the police and justice systems, with about 40% of the unmarried fathers spending some time in prison.*

Amused by someone using the right wing Spectator as solid evidence!

I would prefer athletes protest racism by their actions.

It's not one or the other. They can do both.
Silently tell racists to fuck themselves AND contribute towards equality with their money and work.

We need to work and to shout.

As a society we need to accept that some people are racist overtly, some racist but in less obvious ways. Ultimately, everyone is racist to some degree whether they admit it or not. Once we accept that fact we can try to address the reasons behind this

This is very true. But people don't have the courage to look within themselves and be critical of their own behaviour.

I honestly believe if you sat down with the trolls being racist towards the players, they would say 'I'm not a racist' in fact I could bet money on it.

Therefore I honestly see it as an impossible thing to change.

piggy was pushed
That article is unrelated to single parent families.
As the other studies clearly show children in these families are more likely to be excluded, more likely to be involved in crime as well as having worse life chances in general.
Like BLM, You clearly don’t see these things as being a problem but I do and certainly don’t want to promote an organisation that encourages them.

doesparentingsuck,

"Disgusting post."

That's your opinion, which you are entitled to have.

I am also entitled to an opinion, so don't get all bent out of shape because you don't agree.

As a PR campaign its genius as we are all talking about it, including children. It is already bringing up racism in conversations in many households and workplaces, already spurring actions that will make a difference.

www.iwf.org/2020/10/01/fact-check-is-it-true-that-black-lives-matter-wants-to-abolish-the-nuclear-family/

www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/28/ask-politifact-does-black-lives-matter-aim-destroy/

Chain jane

"I would prefer athletes protest racism by their actions. Give a large part of their huge incomes to charities that help reduce inequality. Set up scholarships and the like for disadvantaged children. Acknowledge that inequality is not just a black/white issue, there is a lot of grey in between."

Excellent post.

Those who say politics should be kept out of sport-maybe that will happen when racism is kept out of sport.

I don’t have a problem with it but It feels a lot like virtue signalling to me. Not sure what it actually achieves. They’re been taking the knee in the US for years now - how has it helped?

@Elsa888-many of the young black players do that. It isn’t that getting involved in politics?

@Elsa888 racism isn't always overt - it's sometimes in a persons views - and your views are racist.

Your view and belief that black women fit in to a very narrow box of what it is to be black and if anyone dared deviate from it then they are 'trying to be white'

Educate yourself.

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

my thoughts exactly , couldnt have put it better myself

Just thinking - perhaps not such a bad thing that these attacks happened to the footballers, though terrible for them, at least we can stop pretending the UK isn't racist. There's no getting out of it now.
Hopefully gov/ FA etc will come up with some ideas on encouraging or enforcing change.