Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

It'd be a different issue though if the team had come up with the idea themselves. I'd find that truly heartwarming. But I strongly suspect they had little involvement or say in the matter.

@Nandakanda

In answer to original points:

1. During my lifetime the uk has made room for millions of immigrants and now their children, regardless of impact on housing, jobs, social services etc. I personally risked life and limb helping to run ANLevents back in the 1980s. Immigrants to Europe generally have the same legal rights as everybody else. I always treat bame people with respect and courtesy, and find the assertion I haven’t done enough insulting. What we do here has no impact on the USA whatsoever.

1. Nothing. It’s very divisive, and l personally find the way football is targeted for such measures well over a year after GF died very odd. Football is being targeted. Why not rugby, tennis, school sports etc? I haven’t seen any of the alleged tweets aimed at our three players although I’m sure they exist. Again, I find it odd that this becomes an enormous social media crusade over shadowing all else, including the plight of many people who are genuinely oppressed around the world.

It’s easy to see on forums such as this that most people are really prepared to go out on a limb to treat bame people with decency, and are incredibly quick to start throwing the R word around. Countries overwhelmingly treat their indigenous population with some degree of favouritism - if you want to experience real racism, go elsewhere.

I just don't know where to begin on this but will start with the word indigenous. Are you not aware a Tory MP was called out and ridiculed for using this word only last week? What does indigenous even mean in the context of the UK? And what about the US?? Do white Americans believe themselves indigenous??

Oh and btw, taking the knee is not just done in football!

And what do you means by genuinely oppressed? Because you seem to be implying that black people aren't.

Do I need to post the link again that says over 50% of the people who have died in police custody in the UK are black males?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/11/black-deaths-in-police-custody-the-tip-of-an-iceberg-of-racist-treatment

@Nandakanda

In answer to original points:

1. During my lifetime the uk has made room for millions of immigrants and now their children, regardless of impact on housing, jobs, social services etc. I personally risked life and limb helping to run ANLevents back in the 1980s. Immigrants to Europe generally have the same legal rights as everybody else. I always treat bame people with respect and courtesy, and find the assertion I haven’t done enough insulting. What we do here has no impact on the USA whatsoever.

1. Nothing. It’s very divisive, and l personally find the way football is targeted for such measures well over a year after GF died very odd. Football is being targeted. Why not rugby, tennis, school sports etc? I haven’t seen any of the alleged tweets aimed at our three players although I’m sure they exist. Again, I find it odd that this becomes an enormous social media crusade over shadowing all else, including the plight of many people who are genuinely oppressed around the world.

It’s easy to see on forums such as this that most people are really prepared to go out on a limb to treat bame people with decency, and are incredibly quick to start throwing the R word around. Countries overwhelmingly treat their indigenous population with some degree of favouritism - if you want to experience real racism, go elsewhere.

Real racism? I grew up in the 70’s in Sussex and heard the screams of my mother down our street as she was chased and spat on by the local skinhead, she was walking to work and had to run home screaming for us to get up and open the door. As a child I was chased around a car by a lad who was screeching the p word as he pulled my plaits. At 15 I was held back and moved away by friends as a mixed race lad I know was battered on the floor, all we did was walk through an open air shopping centre passed a pub. Countless racist name calling at school, pinched on way home by a girl that followed me home daily. I could go on and on but according to you this isn’t real racism.

Between 2008/09 and 2018/19, 85 percent of deaths in police custody in England and Wales were white people, who make up 86 percent of the UK population. In the same time period, black people accounted for eight percent of the UK deaths in police custody, while only making up three percent of the total population.

Hardly anyone dies in police custody and most black people live in city centres so are more likely to be affected by crime.

This is the problem - conflating US and UK crime figures as if we have armed police shooting black people. This is what twitter etc does. But the Guardian shouldn't stoke racism - we are not the US.

www.statista.com/statistics/1122775/deaths-in-police-custody-in-the-uk-2019-by-ethnicity/

Hardly anyone dies in police custody and most black people live in city centres so are more likely to be affected by crime.

Bollocks. Affected by is not the same as dying in police custody!!

www.google.com/search?q=black+people+killed+in+custody+uk&rlz=1C1GCEB_enGB950GB950&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.69i59i450l8.320405785j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I am very shocked by the whataboutery and nonsense on this thread. Is it because the government has told us racism doesn't exist in the UK?

The deaths don't have to be shootings you know. I give you Dalian Atkinson. And Leon Briggs.

Time and time again studies have shown that the lack of one causes inequality.

Only if you believe the New Right. Inequality is not caused by single parents!!!

But if you would like to point to those multiple studies , I'm all ears.

Can anyone explain wht it is called " taking the knee" and not "kneeling down?"
The expression really irritates and yes, I am completely missing the point of the thread.

Some of the comments on this thread are so utterly depressing. There is so much racism in this country and so much denial, even when it's staring us in the face. And that is why I totally respect the footballers for taking the knee... they are using their platform to highlight the issue.

It's incredibly sad that they still have to do it, but after the abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka in recent days, I'm amazed that anyone is still trying to make the case that racism isn't really a problem in this country. I guess what people really mean when they say that is that is isn't a problem for them.

Disgusting.

@dementedma

Can anyone explain wht it is called " taking the knee" and not "kneeling down?" The expression really irritates and yes, I am completely missing the point of the thread.

letmegooglethat.com/

piggywaspushed
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/education-47057787.amp
Took me 2 seconds.

@dementedma

Can anyone explain wht it is called " taking the knee" and not "kneeling down?" The expression really irritates and yes, I am completely missing the point of the thread.

Agree, it grates with me too. Why not just 'kneel'?

@SD1978

Because it does nothing, changes nothing. And is easy to do whilst not doing anything. Have no issue with it, but see it as meaningless. Take steps to change a perceived problem, don't juts follow with an action that has no real effect on any issue.

It's entirely possible to do both, you do realise?

White persona who has no problem with others doing this and would happily do it.

Anyone who feels so strongly opposed they would use energy to boo others is very clearly racist

The big problem is it is now simply a virtue signalling move - or rather one that enforces virtue signalling. It is not a choice because if a footballer refused to do it they would be condemned as racist. And that is my biggest reason for disliking it. It is no longer about racism but being forced to comply with certain behaviour by the mob or be condemned. It wouldn't matyer if a player devoted every spare second to fighting racism and spoke publically about it at every opportunity. All that matters is do they kneel?

Why wouldn’t you want to show your support and solidarity with fellow players though? A unified team all taking the knee is a powerful symbol that racist bullshit won’t be tolerated.

I’m still wondering when opposing racism became ‘politics’ rather than just ‘being a decent person’.

Turdibacious

I think because historically, in Europe anyway, it's a gesture of subservience, like taking an oath of fealty to an overlord. So to me it seems an odd gesture to choose.“

Agree. I have no problem with it at all but confess to not understanding it’s origins.

I don't support 'taking the knee' or BLM and this article explains why more eloquently then I can.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/revealed-what-black-lives-matter-really-stands-for

Oh, yes, an opinion article with the caption "Revealed" is very likely to be unbiased and informative.

@TedMullins

I’m still wondering when opposing racism became ‘politics’ rather than just ‘being a decent person’.

I suppose when being racist became party manifesto...