Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

I don't have a problem with it but I always think what would happen if it was the other way round?

This relying on black people to educate on why you should support anti racism is really really tiring.

And herein lies my problem. The assertion that you’re racist if you don’t wholeheartedly support BLM.

So are all the people who have concerns about Stonewall homophobic bigots?

Sorry if I have misunderstood but I think you said nazism is not the same as Marxism? Theoretically no , but in practice history tells us time and time again that it i. The reality of communism is very small group of rich, no middle classes , masses poor.

I didn’t say anything like that. I was making a point that names carry associations in response to people saying “oh, but that’s the other side of BLM”. My point was that people associate BLM in its entirety with anti establishment like how they associate Hitler with Nazism - a point which was proven by several people who mentioned Nazism when I only referred to Hitler’s financial policies.

I agree with you about communism FWIW but it’s an entirely different point to the one I was making.

Because it does nothing, changes nothing. And is easy to do whilst not doing anything. Have no issue with it, but see it as meaningless. Take steps to change a perceived problem, don't juts follow with an action that has no real effect on any issue.

As a white woman with a mixed race child I think that its a good thing. The men doing it are role models for a lot of young people and it is young people who change the world. They will grow up being shown by their heroes that racism is an evil that should be erradicated.

And the reaction to the three black players last night not scoring their penalties shows just how far we have to go.

The idea that football should be above politics is just ludicrous.

It’s not above being a cooperate money-making exercise, but it should be ‘above’ real concerns held by decent people?

Nonsense.

There is no problem with taking the knee. Unless you are a racist.

There is no problem with taking the knee. Unless you are a racist.

The most succinct and accurate statement about this I have seen.

What if you just don’t want others telling you to kneel down on their command and would rather make a difference in your own way?

PyongyangKipperbang

Hear, hear.

I have no problem with others doing it but personally, I take the knee to no one. As it is a sign of subservience and deference and I feel that I am as good as the next person.

I have no issue with anyone taking the knee, if that is their preference. I don't like people to be pressured into that sort of stuff.
I don't feel comfortable doing it myself. I managed to curtsy for the Queen at an award ceremony once but even that was uncomfortable.
I make a stand against racism in my own way.

@Weebleweeble

I’ve heard people complain it’s ‘too Americanized’ but I suspect that’s just an excuse. They’d rather not see it at all, then they don’t have to think about it

To me BLM is a U.S. fight against the shooting of black people by armed American police. Taking on the issue of the right to bear arms etc, a right in the US, is imv destined to fail. We have problems if our own but they are very different from American ones. Our police aren't routinely armed ( unlike almost every other country).
Black lives matter is about black people dying rather than racism.

Yes, dying due to… racism.

Presumably all posters calling people racists would be prepared to get on their knees in support of men’s rights and agree that anyone who didn’t was sexist?

@PyongyangKipperbang

There is no problem with taking the knee. Unless you are a racist.

The most succinct and accurate statement about this I have seen.

The most stupid statement I have seen. Do you think black people who don't take the knee are racist against themselves?

@SourAppleChew

Presumably all posters calling people racists would be prepared to get on their knees in support of men’s rights and agree that anyone who didn’t was sexist?

But men aren’t repressed. That makes no sense.

Oppressed! They are often repressed

I have no problem with it and was pleased that the England squad we're doing it. I think racism is a huge issue in football and anything that shows the team are against it is fine in my book. I liked Harry Kane's 'we don't want you' statement yesterday and Southgate's 'that's not what we stand for' one.

Sadly I know a lot of racist twats (extended family not my friends) and they love to say offensive shit while pretending it's not racist. Anything that brings it out in to the open absolutely challenges their view of the world where these comments are 'just a joke'. Anyone who challenged them used to be PC gone mad but now it's their new favourite word 'woke'.

My fil is housebound and lives very rurally. He definitely hasn't met anyone who isn't white in the past few years because he hasn't left the house. Before that I'm not exaggerating if I say he's probably came across one or 2 Asian people in his adult life and never met a black person. Yet he is absolutely the most racist person I've met whilst simultaneously denying racism exists. He'll tell you in all seriousness about schools in London where no kid can speak English, about the Muslims wanting to impose sharia (sp?) law on the U.K., no go areas for white people etc. Its fucking ridiculous. We visit very rarely because it's so exhausting challenging it constantly (not to change his mind; that won't happen, but to show the kids we don't sit quietly when we hear racism). I genuinely can't imagine how exhausting dealing with it constantly is. I'm amazed Marcus Rashford had the patience to write such a nice well measured post last night.

I think the aftermath of Sunday night has shown that lots of people are only colourblind when they want to be but it doesn't take long for their true colours to come out.

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

What does woke mean though?

I’m really glad the England team did it and cannot understand why anyone would object.

The whole subservient thing is something i had not thought of and I get it, but I can’t think of a better short, physical act of solidarity.

Thos saying it doesn’t change anything, I disagree. It doesn’t directly change anything, but there are view few single acts that can. The battle to end racism is about decent people making it clear that they will not tolerate racism. Hopefully, people will have a visual image to remind them of that when they are faced with racism.

I don’t normally feel any sense of national pride, but I am so proud to have been represented by a group demonstrating support for inclusivity.

And how would you prefer people raise awareness of people being murdered for the colour of their skin?
its not worth taking on U.S. race problems. You won't win, or not for decades. Concentrate on the U.K.

We should strive for equality where no race is given preferable treatment, where no race is subservient. By kneeling, you’re still seeing black people as “other” and it’s a bit of a white saviour complex to perceive black people as people to “save.” You’re also being racist by demonising people according to the colour of their skin (saying all white people are colonisers and brutes) and oppression (highlighting “black only” brands and spaces).

For reference, I am neither Caucasian or black.

People on here saying they’re not racist, treat people the same etc so they don’t agree with it.Some of them seem to be offended by it.It’s like that gestures against racism are only valid if acceptable to them. So what are acceptable gestures? Gestures do matter because they bring awareness to people, for example 2 minute silence on Remembrance Sunday.Those young men and their manager decided they would like to use that brief gesture to raise awareness and to say they’re all united against racism. It’s a simple way before a match to bring the message.People banging on about submission etc are reading too much into it. You don’t hear people equating the 2 minute silence with being silenced-it’s recognised as the chosen way to recognise sacrifice. So why not just support these young men who have chosen their signal.
There is a problem with racism here-not just the overt kind but the insidious kind too. The kind that says people of colour are not allowed to criticise their country and institutions in the same way white people can. That poc chould be grateful for living here. They dismiss the phrase BLM with all lives matter. We do need to look inside ourselves and reflect on our own attitudes and prejudices.

In answer to original points:

1. During my lifetime the uk has made room for millions of immigrants and now their children, regardless of impact on housing, jobs, social services etc. I personally risked life and limb helping to run ANLevents back in the 1980s. Immigrants to Europe generally have the same legal rights as everybody else. I always treat bame people with respect and courtesy, and find the assertion I haven’t done enough insulting. What we do here has no impact on the USA whatsoever.

1. Nothing. It’s very divisive, and l personally find the way football is targeted for such measures well over a year after GF died very odd. Football is being targeted. Why not rugby, tennis, school sports etc? I haven’t seen any of the alleged tweets aimed at our three players although I’m sure they exist. Again, I find it odd that this becomes an enormous social media crusade over shadowing all else, including the plight of many people who are genuinely oppressed around the world.

It’s easy to see on forums such as this that most people are really prepared to go out on a limb to treat bame people with decency, and are incredibly quick to start throwing the R word around. Countries overwhelmingly treat their indigenous population with some degree of favouritism - if you want to experience real racism, go elsewhere.

But men aren’t repressed. That makes no sense.

Young men are definitely oppressed by the patriarchy and toxic masculinity, neither of which they created - both have been around for decades.

It's often suggested that the stereotype of the 'stoic male' and the attitude that 'boys don't cry' is a big factor in why so many young men commit suicide rather than admit they can't cope. They fear being seen as weak, which isn't as much an issue for us who can cry in front of our mates without being seen as a lesser member of our sex.

I don't think anybody should be compelled to kneel unless they want to, but given that suicide is the main cause of death of young men, way above police violence, I think you could definitely argue that anybody who wouldn't bend their knee in support of it is insensitive, if you're going argue that anyone who wouldn't bend their knee in support of police violence is racist.

I'm not hung up on men's rights btw much as I do support them. I just chose an issue that likely isn't a priority for most on here, in order to demonstrate my point that people change their tune depending on how close to their heart the issue is - i.e. they'll state that people should kneel for the issues they care about but won't necessarily do the same for issues others prioritise.