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Original poster

Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

999 replies

Flayn · 12/07/2021 17:39

  1. What is the problem with taking the knee
  2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

OP posts:
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6
Truthseeker456 · 12/07/2021 23:51

Different view here, I wouldn't personally take the knee. I won't go into the politics here , but I don't believe I am inherently racist because I am white. I won't have anyone tell me that I treat people differently , I don't ascribe to unconscious bias. I have never seen colour , only people. I see the world being divided and not united with these movements in a really bad way maybe not here so much but definitely in America.

HotPenguin · 12/07/2021 23:51

I find it very hard to understand why you would boo the very people you are there to support especially when you have spent £££ on a ticket. I could understand people doing a small roll of the eyes if they felt it was gesture politics that wouldn't change anything. But not actually booing your own side. You must really, really hate the gesture to do that.

SionnachRua · 12/07/2021 23:53

I can't answer for all white people, no more than a black person can respond for all black people. But I have no issue with taking the knee. Didn't think it was all that effective of a symbol at the start tbh - didn't seem to have much power to it, to me - but now seeing how the racists froth about it, I was wrong!

SourAppleChew · 12/07/2021 23:56

Putting the defending the police issue aside (because that is a particular aim of the American movement)...comparing learning about Marxist Ideology to Nazism is absolutely extreme and terrifying indication as to how people buy into the screaming media dogwhistle. Communist dictatorship /authoritarianism is not the same as Marxist philosophy.

Well, it’s just as well I’m not ”comparing learning about Marxist Ideology to Nazism”.

I’m talking about how a name brings certain connotations and you’ve proven my point. I mention Adolf Hitler and you immediately think of Nazism, much as how when people mention BLM others immediately think of police abolishment.

I haven’t once mentioned Nazism.

Truthseeker456 · 12/07/2021 23:58

@SionnachRua

I can't answer for all white people, no more than a black person can respond for all black people. But I have no issue with taking the knee. Didn't think it was all that effective of a symbol at the start tbh - didn't seem to have much power to it, to me - but now seeing how the racists froth about it, I was wrong!
You would be very wrong to assume that people are racist just because they don't agree with it. People are fed up of politics in sport, maybe it was just that ? Its no coincidence that the two countries who wouldn't take the knee are Eastern bloc countries who suffered tremendously under brutal communist regimes.
SourAppleChew · 12/07/2021 23:59

I despise racism but I’m also a little terrified of what an organisation like BLM might do if they acquired the kind of money and power they are rapidly acquiring - through deceitful means it would seem in many cases.

Stonewall anyone?

Wearywithteens · 12/07/2021 23:59

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

entropynow · 13/07/2021 00:00

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.
Visceral anger? Submission?

Spot the bigot.

Orangecinnamon21 · 13/07/2021 00:01

Not really but there you go oh and I disagree about Hitler being a financial genius or whatever too but perhaps that's for another thread!

If you can't see the difference there are lots of evidenced articles and around. This relying on black people to educate on why you should support anti racism is really really tiring.

SionnachRua · 13/07/2021 00:04

You would be very wrong to assume that people are racist just because they don't agree with it.

Except that's not what I said, isn't it? I said that the racists are frothing about taking the knee - which they are, looking at online commentary. That doesn't automatically equal that everyone who's against taking the knee is racist. You made that association by yourself, for your own reasons.

Truthseeker456 · 13/07/2021 00:05

@SourAppleChew

Putting the defending the police issue aside (because that is a particular aim of the American movement)...comparing learning about Marxist Ideology to Nazism is absolutely extreme and terrifying indication as to how people buy into the screaming media dogwhistle. Communist dictatorship /authoritarianism is not the same as Marxist philosophy.

Well, it’s just as well I’m not ”comparing learning about Marxist Ideology to Nazism”.

I’m talking about how a name brings certain connotations and you’ve proven my point. I mention Adolf Hitler and you immediately think of Nazism, much as how when people mention BLM others immediately think of police abolishment.

I haven’t once mentioned Nazism.

Sorry if I have misunderstood but I think you said nazism is not the same as Marxism? Theoretically no , but in practice history tells us time and time again that it i. The reality of communism is very small group of rich, no middle classes , masses poor.
Orangecinnamon21 · 13/07/2021 00:08

..and I'm sure there would be so much more support of anti racism if BLM the political movement didn't exist! ( sarcastic)

Truthseeker456 · 13/07/2021 00:11

@SionnachRua

You would be very wrong to assume that people are racist just because they don't agree with it.

Except that's not what I said, isn't it? I said that the racists are frothing about taking the knee - which they are, looking at online commentary. That doesn't automatically equal that everyone who's against taking the knee is racist. You made that association by yourself, for your own reasons.

You said racists so that's exactly what you said. You made no mention of this online commentary where you got evidence of this racism in your original post. I just want people to remember people like me who don't believe in taking the knees refuse for a number of reasons, for me , its not about race. Hope I provided you with a little education Smile
SionnachRua · 13/07/2021 00:15

When education becomes a synonym for amusement then yes, that's certainly what you'll have provided me. Smile

FaceyRomford · 13/07/2021 00:21

It's a meaningless, imported American gesture and virtue signalling at its worst.

Truthseeker456 · 13/07/2021 00:29

@SionnachRua

You would be very wrong to assume that people are racist just because they don't agree with it.

Except that's not what I said, isn't it? I said that the racists are frothing about taking the knee - which they are, looking at online commentary. That doesn't automatically equal that everyone who's against taking the knee is racist. You made that association by yourself, for your own reasons.

Sorry humble pie , I didn't read early threads and I haven't read the news today so didn't get the reference to online comments ! Understand your point now
KilljoysDutch · 13/07/2021 00:31

This reply has been deleted

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KilljoysDutch · 13/07/2021 00:32

@FaceyRomford

It's a meaningless, imported American gesture and virtue signalling at its worst.
And how would you prefer people raise awareness of people being murdered for the colour of their skin? In a nice silent way that means you can carry on ignoring the issue? Every single time someone takes the knee for BLM it's a reminder of what's happening and a call to arms to change things.
SionnachRua · 13/07/2021 00:34

Sorry humble pie , I didn't read early threads and I haven't read the news today so didn't get the reference to online comments ! Understand your point now

It's disgusting isn't it? Internet anonymity is great and all but Christ, when you see what's said about the players online you have to wonder. Some of it must be teens playing the hard man but plenty grown adults at it too. Anywho. Everyone gets a slice of humble pie now and again!

SheSaidHummingbird · 13/07/2021 00:51

While I have no problem with players marking respect in whatever way they choose, I do take issue with being asked a question that you're throwing at us 'white people'... And probably expecting a unanimous answer because all 'white people' share the same opinions, right?

TedMullins · 13/07/2021 00:56

“Fearing being labelled a racist” isn’t worse than actually being a racist, despite what some people (usually racists) think.

For everyone saying they “don’t see colour” and the world is divided by such gestures as taking the knee, have you seen the racist abuse directed at Rashford, Saka and Sancho for missing a penalty? Clearly the people saying those vile and disgusting things very much do “see colour” and use it against people when it suits them. It’s wilful ignorance to say you don’t see colour and everyone should ignore it then racism would go away. That’s not the reality of the world we live in - racism and racist power structures put in place by white people very much exist and taking the knee is a gesture showing commitment to fighting those attitudes and structures. And as for “I don’t want politics in sport” - when did opposing racism become political? Isn’t it just a very basic tenet of being a decent person?

Fakenham · 13/07/2021 00:56

I have no problem with it. I support it and the abuse the lads received last night shows that it should continue.

WetPaint4 · 13/07/2021 01:03

The English football community - the FA, the Premier League, broadcasters, distanced themselves from BLM in 2020, I'm sure it was in the news. Since then, the message has been one of equality and anti-racism, not politics.

How certain people (white and black) choose to view the gesture is up to them. Could Harry Kane and his squad have come out and explained what this actually means to the England players? Possibly. But should they have to? Surely a player having to defend/justify an anti-racism gesture when the squad is multi cultural tells this country there's a bigger problem?

Do people lack the imagination to believe that taking the knee now doesn't necessarily represent BLM, Marxism or George Floyd for these players? I seriously doubt that the England players are united in their political beliefs but there is a unity and team spirit that has been really positive. Do people think that rainbows always meant Pride/LGBTQ+ or celebration of the NHS? Symbols change, they get adopted by different people for different reasons. I don't know what the answer to the kneeling issue is because something has to happen quickly, a small section of white people are getting blatantly resentful towards minorities, usually when they start throwing around the world 'woke' in a sneering manner and complaining about too many non-white people on tv.

I believe the people who have a problem with the kneeling would have a problem with any other gesture tbh, it's a control issue. It is comforting to see the number of white people who are supportive, though.

Orangecinnamon21 · 13/07/2021 01:12

@WetPaint4

The English football community - the FA, the Premier League, broadcasters, distanced themselves from BLM in 2020, I'm sure it was in the news. Since then, the message has been one of equality and anti-racism, not politics.

How certain people (white and black) choose to view the gesture is up to them. Could Harry Kane and his squad have come out and explained what this actually means to the England players? Possibly. But should they have to? Surely a player having to defend/justify an anti-racism gesture when the squad is multi cultural tells this country there's a bigger problem?

Do people lack the imagination to believe that taking the knee now doesn't necessarily represent BLM, Marxism or George Floyd for these players? I seriously doubt that the England players are united in their political beliefs but there is a unity and team spirit that has been really positive. Do people think that rainbows always meant Pride/LGBTQ+ or celebration of the NHS? Symbols change, they get adopted by different people for different reasons. I don't know what the answer to the kneeling issue is because something has to happen quickly, a small section of white people are getting blatantly resentful towards minorities, usually when they start throwing around the world 'woke' in a sneering manner and complaining about too many non-white people on tv.

I believe the people who have a problem with the kneeling would have a problem with any other gesture tbh, it's a control issue. It is comforting to see the number of white people who are supportive, though.

Well said!

Although I find it very discomforting how little people seem to care sometimes..
Perhaps my involvement social media is to blame for highlighting it to me a bit more.
I now find myself distrustful of people I don't know..extrapolating I guess. I wasn't always like that.

BraveGoldie · 13/07/2021 01:14

@pinkcircustop

It’s just pointless and politicising football. They should leave it well alone and just play the game.

You’re watching a football match for some fun, not for a political point at the start.

Why is it a political stance to be against mistreatment of other human beings?

Unless we are involved in politics, we shouldn't worry about it and just get on with being awful to each other without intervening?

Fighting racism is every decent human being's job - nothing to do with politics.