Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

@Keeping2ChevronsApart there isn’t a binary division between racists/non-racists. I reckon a lot of people have negative attitudes they’d be prepared to examine.

I don't have a problem with anyone taking the knee.

But I am angry that the government practically endorsed the racist bollocks that's been prevalent, both previously and by not calling out the booing.

We really showcased the absolute worst of England last night.

Booing. Sore losing. Blaming players for not getting a penalty, despite us only missing out by one goal. Defacing statues. Racist comments.

I hate how quick they were to blame these young men, not too far from boyhood, when they'd played their hearts out for an extended period.

The players did their best.
The fans are fucking awful.

Take the knee? I think England fans would be better suited to hang their heads in shame. We have a big racism problem and instead of minimising it it needs tackling. However, I don't think taking the knee makes a blind bit of difference. Real change needs to come from the top down.

We also have a big sore loser problem, helped along by widespread state sanctioned toxic masculinity.

And as for this bloke, what a tit.
inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-lee-anderson-sticks-by-one-man-boycott-england-euros-captivate-nation-1092494

I think the issue is, that some people say that BLM is a Marxist group, that they want to defund the police, release all prisoners, bring down the banks etc and other stuff. I looked at their website recently to try and understand if this was true, I didn't really see anything in the website that said that, but from what I hear that is the issue. Obviously no one is suggesting that the football team and everyone doing it is in support of what it is said BLM stand for, most people, like myself just want to support black people and equality. But anyway, that's my understanding, it's more about the movement behind the scenes (if there even is one).

Saying taking a knee doesn't do much to actually solve the problem is a totally valid opinion.

But getting angry about, Booing it, making snide comments about it, etc etc is utterly ridiculous. And my feeling is that many people who do this ... are not exactly breaking their backs opposing racism "in real life"...

@PostNatalMess

Great post. So true about those young lads playing their hearts out for their country and that’s the thanks they get. It’s such a shame that all the talk was of the racists instead of how that great bunch of young men made us feel so proud-not just because of their skills with the ball but also their attitude, comradeship and how they made our hearts sing.

@redcarbluecar

there isn’t a binary division between racists/non-racists. I reckon a lot of people have negative attitudes they’d be prepared to examine.

I agree... everyone carries racial prejudices - whether minor or extremely blatant. However I DO think there is a divide between the people who wish to tackle their own prejudices and the prejudices of any given society... VS those people who are quite content holding racial prejudices and dont think it really needs challenging.

But if you have to be a Marxist, you’d want to be a ‘trained Marxist’. You wouldn’t want any amateur Marxists half-arsedly seizing the means of production.

1. no problem with it.
2. Its not up to me to think up ways for them to protest racism, just to support them when they do.

Thanks to Orange and others who have made an effort to explain more about this. I feel like I have learnt something from this thread.

@frumpety

1. no problem with it.

1. Its not up to me to think up ways for them to protest racism, just to support them when they do.

Number 2 exactly my thoughts too.

What a load of old toot.

Time and time again people have explained the differences between the organisation and the movement. It is all over the Internet and referred to by the FA. If Millwall fans have gained the knowledge enough about the gesture and Marxism they would also have come across the many, many parts of the Internet that explain the differences between the moment and the organisation.

The problem for many is that it’s just too entangled with all the Marxist and ‘abolish the police’ narrative. It’s all very well to say “we should support this BLM, not that BLM” but at the end of the day you’re still raising the profile of both.

Extreme example, but imagine if the government created an ‘Adolf Hitler initiative’ solely focusing on employing the financial tactics he used to bring Germany out of hyper inflation and instead applying them to post Brexit Britain. You can be sure that people would protest even if they made it clear they were focusing on ‘the other side of Adolf Hitler’.

@Habitualhonesty

taking the knee validates the feelings of millions of black people people in this country and across the globe. To dismissively state it doesn’t help anything, stinks of white supremacist ideologies.

Many people of colour do not agree with kneeling.

To accuse people who do not agree with kneeling of 'white supremacy' is extremely offensive and merely causes more division.

Human race should be united, not divided by colour.

@Confusedandshaken

I'm a middle aged white lady. I've attended BLM demos and taken the knee. I admire the footballers for doing it.

Same!

One leader said she supported Marxist Ideology....

Racism is abhorrent but taking the knee I feel is not serving a purpose in tackling racist behaviour. It is a gesture and came about due to horrific actions in the U.S.A. I did not think last year that it was appropriate to do in U.K. and remain of this view. What is needed is action in normal everyday life to tackle racism not symbolism

@SourAppleChew

What a load of old toot.

Time and time again people have explained the differences between the organisation and the movement. It is all over the Internet and referred to by the FA. If Millwall fans have gained the knowledge enough about the gesture and Marxism they would also have come across the many, many parts of the Internet that explain the differences between the moment and the organisation.

The problem for many is that it’s just too entangled with all the Marxist and ‘abolish the police’ narrative. It’s all very well to say “we should support this BLM, not that BLM” but at the end of the day you’re still raising the profile of both.

Extreme example, but imagine if the government created an ‘Adolf Hitler initiative’ solely focusing on employing the financial tactics he used to bring Germany out of hyper inflation and instead applying them to post Brexit Britain. You can be sure that people would protest even if they made it clear they were focusing on ‘the other side of Adolf Hitler’.

Yes a very extreme and offensive example.

Don't support it at all, causing more issues than solving them.

It’s obviously a good thing to take a stand against racism. But as other posters have said- Do the people who support “taking the knee” have a complete understanding of the philosophy and objectives of the BLM movement? And are they sure they want to identify publicly with these objectives?

White - don't have any sort of a problem with it. I was rather moved when the England team knelt, to be honest.

Ghosttile Nothing worse than a half-seized method of production - slippery little buggers that they are ...

Kneeling is subservient and I won’t kneel for anyone, not even the Queen. I don’t find it appropriate that a certain group of people expect subservient gestures from others. That is not equality.

Yes a very extreme and offensive example.

Your reaction proves my point (don’t mean that in a goady way).

We can talk about Hitler’s excellence in financial management but it’s impossible not to associate his name with other things. Same with BLM. It holds connotations of anti-establishment rhetoric etc.

Most people are against racism but most don’t want to abolish the police. The latter should not be shoehorned into the former or use it as a Trojan horse IMO. It’s too sneaky for me, as is taking donations from people who think they’re fighting racism and then putting £1m of that money into their abolish the police campaign.

@SourAppleChew

Yes a very extreme and offensive example.

Your reaction proves my point (don’t mean that in a goady way).

We can talk about Hitler’s excellence in financial management but it’s impossible not to associate his name with other things. Same with BLM. It holds connotations of anti-establishment rhetoric etc.

Most people are against racism but most don’t want to abolish the police. The latter should not be shoehorned into the former or use it as a Trojan horse IMO. It’s too sneaky for me, as is taking donations from people who think they’re fighting racism and then putting £1m of that money into their abolish the police campaign.

Putting the defending the police issue aside (because that is a particular aim of the American movement) ...comparing learning about Marxist Ideology to Nazism is absolutely extreme and terrifying indication as to how people buy into the screaming media dogwhistle. Communist dictatorship /authoritarianism is not the same as Marxist philosophy.

It is not only white people, I personally don’t have a problem with it, each to their own.

@TedMullins

No problem with it and anyone who does is a racist in denial tbh.

That’s not true and no one should be forced to do it for fear of being labelled a racist if they don’t.