Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Just one article of many

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

It's not a gesture of submission.

"Woke" means decent people: anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-misogyny.

Pro-pride, pro choice, and so on. Just a decent human being. In 2021, anyway. You have a problem with that?

@Turdibacious

I think because historically, in Europe anyway, it's a gesture of subservience, like taking an oath of fealty to an overlord. So to me it seems an odd gesture to choose.

I would prefer to see people taking a stand against racism

This.

There isn't a problem with it as such. I don't agree with it though as it doesn't help anything.
Also taking the knee is kind of submissive as going back a long way that's what you did to royalty, aristocracy etc. So not really sure it's a the best symbol really.

I'm white.
I have no problem with footballers taking the knee, infact I applaud them. I also have no problem with them not taking the knee or stopping doing it.

I have a huge problem with people booing those who take the knee. Wtf is that all about? Booing people for drawing attention to racism, honestly, I can't imagine anyone except a racist would want to do that. And as for Boris Johnson, refusing to criticise people booing the knee, it's no wonder racists all love him.

@Rosebel - are you sure it doesn't help anything? It's got an awful lot of people discussing racism and maybe, just maybe, some attitudes will shift as a result. What would a good alternative be?

@DevonorLondon

I’m fascinated by this thread, as I had no idea that the belief that this was an innocent gesture of anti-racism was so widespread. I’m astonished! I think the example of Millwall is salient. The players knelt before matches. The fans booed because they hate the Marxist organisation BLM. In subsequent games, the players changed to linking arms against racism. The fans cheered. Millwall link arms against racism before matches now. No problem.

Many people who despise racism despise the BLM movement. Their actions appear to increase division. I believe ‘taking the knee’ increases division, and that seeing your national team kneeling in fealty to a foreign political movement is unlikely to move minds. Sanctimonious virtue-signalling isn’t terribly persuasive.

I don't have a problem with Marxism, but I think the idea of linking arms is a much more appropriate gesture - good idea Millwall. And it would deprive many of the knee-naysayers (me included) of reasons to object.

I’m white.

Have taken the knee during a protest. Would again. Would do a lot of things to stand up to racism. I find it utterly abhorrent.

It reminds me of Ghandi and the ‘sit ins’ he organised.

I think that sports people who are in the public eye and role models for children have a duty to set the moral compass in the right direction.

Just watched Rashford hit the post on the news again. I felt so bad for him, that must be crushing. I heard he has apologised for missing. He has nothing to apologise for, the man is brilliant. Not just him, all of our young players. Heros in my book.

A team taking the knee is a powerful image of solidarity and gets people thinking and talking about racism as we are doing here.

@Lostmarbles2021

I’m white.

Have taken the knee during a protest. Would again. Would do a lot of things to stand up to racism. I find it utterly abhorrent.

It reminds me of Ghandi and the ‘sit ins’ he organised.

I think that sports people who are in the public eye and role models for children have a duty to set the moral compass in the right direction.

Totally agree.

Millwall has a lot of to do before it can ever be given a 'well done' I tes if fighting racism. The same faces time and time again...chanting despicable songs in pubs...organising fights. Yet somehow you still see them at matches.

I have zero issue with it personally, but I think the point of it has been lost. The first few games, I think people took notice of it. Now I think people are blind to it.

When the footballing authorities start to really clamp down on it - by that I mean more than a paltry few thousand pounds fine - things might start to change. If I recall correctly, someone received a higher fine for wearing boxers with Paddy Power on them than another who used racist language. That needs to change.

@Elys3

A team taking the knee is a powerful image of solidarity and gets people thinking and talking about racism as we are doing here.

Totally agree

[quote redcarbluecar]@Rosebel - are you sure it doesn't help anything? It's got an awful lot of people discussing racism and maybe, just maybe, some attitudes will shift as a result. What would a good alternative be?[/quote]
I honestly don't know what a good alternative would be. It just seems a submissive action which is surely the wrong message.
Talking about racism is a good thing but I'm not sure it would change the actions or thoughts of those who are racist

I

@Blondiney

Performative bollocks.

Yes this. I'm not racist and don't need to prove to people that I'm a decent person. I appreciated what the NHS did but didn't feel the need to go out and impersonate a seal every week.

Nothing. I am 53 and in my lifetime I have witnessed many small steps towards equality. But I recognise there's still so much to do. I was proud of our team for taking the knee.

I also worry that a simple black v white narrative encourages people to focus on differences rather than what unites us. And I think praising good behaviour rather than demonising bad will always lead to better outcomes.

I didn't realise white people had a problem with this, I'm white and don't have a problem.

Yes, it may be American, but to me it symbolises people coming together internationally against racism. And is quite powerful.

Racism is universal.

If that is what an individual wants to do then thats there personal choice.
A lot of you are saying it doesn't change anything but look here we are discussing it.
I have learnt so much as a white person through these sort of discussions, and racism is so inbuilt in generations that it needs to be un picked and called out every single fucking time!

I'm white and I think it's a wonderful thing to do; I have absolutely no problem with it. It makes me sad and ashamed that racism is still such a huge problem in 2021.

@Elys3

A team taking the knee is a powerful image of solidarity and gets people thinking and talking about racism as we are doing here.

Only the non racists though? The actual racists won't care and will unlikely change their views :(

Those saying that taking the knee is submissive, it’s just an excuse.
As for the Marxist BLM movement, are they a political party? No. Are they likely to be elected? No. Are they Marxist? No. Marxist is used as regularly as snowflake and woke to dismiss an argument.

Every country has a racism problem. Sometimes certain people in certain countries will delude themselves that racism is something that happens "elsewhere" but that illusion rarely lasts very long. Many countries have made big progress the last 100 years, but there is still much to do.