Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Tbh, I'm not really very keen on it.

The demand of Black Lives Matter is to stop being murdered by the state, not for footballers to kneel down. It seems like a massive distraction from the actual point.

The "taking the knee" gesture to me resonates much more with people pledging loyalty to the queen for a knighthood than anything anti-racist, so I see the gesture itself as subservient, which is really the opposite of the intended message. And why footballers? What is so particular about footballers, they arent the ones killing black folk on the street.

Meanwhile the murders of Black people by the state just carries right on in the background while everyone is watching the football.

How is the BLM movement Marxist??

Because it does nothing, achieves nothing hence all the crap that's going on currently

Symbols change. They take on a new meaning.

Everyone knows that taking the knee is now a stand against racist abuse. I think it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I have no problem with it per say but it seems a bit 'jumping on the bandwagon to me' and it all gets a bit predictable copying police officers in the States'. I don't think that the message of what they are trying to specifically achieve is clear. And without a clear message or aim, it seems to be more about how they wish to be seen. As an aside, I googled recently the FA given their hype on 'equality in football' and it seemed to centre around the lack of minorities in football management. It recognised that ethnic minorities are well represented on teams (30 % where the proportion is around 20% of the population and that they were not discriminated in terms of pay). That's great that they are specifically addressing it. However I felt slightly irked by the equality message failing to address the absolute disparity of treatment of women in football who are subjected to huge amounts of sexism and discrimination and on average get 99x less pay than male footballers, despite the women's team having won the Euros twice. Yet still the commentators harp on about how England has not won an international final since 66. And no one has ever proposed a bank holiday to celebrate their achievements. It seems to me that taking the knee is more important in terms of PR than anything else and swamps the far less emotive issue of discrimination against women.

I think some people probably feel it should be a choice rather than something they’re told they have to do.

@DevonorLondon

I’m fascinated by this thread, as I had no idea that the belief that this was an innocent gesture of anti-racism was so widespread. I’m astonished! I think the example of Millwall is salient. The players knelt before matches. The fans booed because they hate the Marxist organisation BLM. In subsequent games, the players changed to linking arms against racism. The fans cheered. Millwall link arms against racism before matches now. No problem.

Many people who despise racism despise the BLM movement. Their actions appear to increase division. I believe ‘taking the knee’ increases division, and that seeing your national team kneeling in fealty to a foreign political movement is unlikely to move minds. Sanctimonious virtue-signalling isn’t terribly persuasive.

What a load of old toot.

Time and time again people have explained the differences between the organisation and the movement. It is all over the Internet and referred to by the FA. If Millwall fans have gained the knowledge enough about the gesture and Marxism they would also.have come across the many, many parts of the Internet that explain the differences between the moment and the organisation.

@Wherediditgo

Symbols change. They take on a new meaning.

Everyone knows that taking the knee is now a stand against racist abuse. I think it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Exactly this.

To try to deny institutional racism in this country is shameful.

I am white.

I do not speak for all white people - how could anyone?

I have no problem with any sportsperson taking the knee.

@Hugoslavia

I have no problem with it per say but it seems a bit 'jumping on the bandwagon to me' and it all gets a bit predictable copying police officers in the States'. I don't think that the message of what they are trying to specifically achieve is clear. And without a clear message or aim, it seems to be more about how they wish to be seen. As an aside, I googled recently the FA given their hype on 'equality in football' and it seemed to centre around the lack of minorities in football management. It recognised that ethnic minorities are well represented on teams (30 % where the proportion is around 20% of the population and that they were not discriminated in terms of pay). That's great that they are specifically addressing it. However I felt slightly irked by the equality message failing to address the absolute disparity of treatment of women in football who are subjected to huge amounts of sexism and discrimination and on average get 99x less pay than male footballers, despite the women's team having won the Euros twice. Yet still the commentators harp on about how England has not won an international final since 66. And no one has ever proposed a bank holiday to celebrate their achievements. It seems to me that taking the knee is more important in terms of PR than anything else and swamps the far less emotive issue of discrimination against women.

More than one issue can.be addressed at once ..it's not a competition , we.wont get anywhere if no issues of equality are allowed to be discussed.

@Cailleachian - football has a problem with racism (as shown by what's happened in the last day) and footballers, unlike most of us, have a huge public profile, so are well placed to send out messages to millions of people. Obviously they can't actively stop murders - best outcome is that some people are influenced to think differently. You knew that though, I think.

I've no problem with it. Except the only thing is in football it can be seen to be an empty gesture, i.e. clubs that take the knee but have hardly any black coaches or executives and very few black players. It has to be more than just playing lip service.

Having said that if players want to take the knee they should be encouraged and supported to do it and there should be zero tolerance for any booing.

Well, sometimes the ground can be a bit muddy… actually no problem with taking the knee. It annoyed Donald Trump so it must be a good thing!

‘Symbols change. They take on a new meaning.

Everyone knows that taking the knee is now a stand against racist abuse. I think it’s disingenuous to suggest otherwise.’

Everyone knows it is about opposing racism. They are just not very clear on the greater details and nuance.

Given that at least half the world has been kneeling before their God for at least a thousand years and has written quite a lot about why, and people in the U.K. only really started taking the knee in the last couple of years, I think it is unreasonable to be more familiar with the religious significance than the racism one.

White female here, 53, no problem.

wherediditgo
Because the organisation states they are anti capitalism, anti police and anti nuclear family and typically for these kind of hypocrites the USA leader has multiple properties in luxury areas…

@Nuffaluff

Answer from white person:

1. There is no problem with taking the knee.

Please do not assume that all white people think the same.

What I came to say.

I actually like to see it and it makes me emotional when I see the other teams join in.

I'm pleased to hear about Millwall FC's carefully thought-out anti Marxist philosophy though.

They have their own forum don’t they, where the whole thing got discussed and the fans objections raised?

Personally I think it’s quite a considered and sensitive gesture almost exactly because it’s associated with subservience.

As in… we serve each other as humans of equal value.

Yes. orange I agree. I feel it has a much deeper meaning because of that- much more moving.

Not just white people.

Priti Patel is not white

Funny thing, she disapproves of people taking the knee

But not of booing the national team.

Priorities, I suppose.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-taking-knee-boo-england-b1865409.html

I have no problem with the act itself, but IMO it’s a stupid expression. How can you ‘take’ a knee?

‘Bending’ a knee would be much more apt.

I have no problem with taking the knee. If I could get back up again I'd join them.

Here is an article for those interested in the nuances of the whys, wherefores and whataboutery

theathletic.co.uk/2244447/2021/06/03/taking-knee-football-racism-violence-marxism-blm/