Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Middle aged white woman here. I am so proud of the England team for taking the knee at the start of each match. Racism is endemic within football (and many other aspects of life) so I applaud our boys for pointing out they want racism to be stamped out. Taking the knee is a very visible gesture and should make people think why there is a need for such an action in this day.

’Its hard to berate someone not of colour for using the "N" word in public or the media when it still is widely used in music by black musicians of standing such as Kanye West aswell as underground artists’

I think all lives matter and no race should be lauded above any other.

Oh, dear.

And some other interesting posts.

I like that they did it.

@GenderApostatemk2

I wouldn’t ‘take the knee’ for any reason, under any circumstances, the thought of it stirs a visceral anger in me. It’s a gesture of submission that doesn’t sit well with me at all. No one could ever convince me that it’s a good thing to do. It’s a platitude for the woke.

Same. Seems to be alot of race baiting threads on here lately.

@BoxHedge

I don’t have a problem with a stand against racism in sport.

However I distract my children away from that part of the coverage as I don’t want to explain racism to them - they have friends of all colours and I don’t want them to start viewing some friends as ‘other’ or as victims.

You don't want to explain racism to your children?

I'd rather not have to either, but I don't think we (societally) have that luxury, tbh.

(White but an immigrant to where I live and have been on the receiving end of some horrile displays of xenophobia, incl in front of my small children)

As far as taking the knee goes, I like the distinction between kneeling to and kneeling for above. I also think the gesture suggests a willingness to reflect and consider - to not be at the centre of one's own universe for a moment.

I don't have a specific problem with it in itself, but I don't like the double standards. Either athletes should be allowed to protest whatever they want while on the clock, or they shouldn't be allowed to protest anything, just like most people aren't when they're meant to be working. The first approach seems like it wouldn't be very workable from a practical standpoint, but I'm open to trying it. But I don't think it's right for teams or leagues to only allow a protest of that one thing. It also smacks of virtue-signaling, which is always a turn-off to me. No one's going to do anything differently in their own life because a footballer took a knee.

Also not white, for whatever that's worth.

White person. It’s American symbolism. We are not American. I also hate politics in football.
I’m anti racism of course but lost respect for the BLM movement when I found out that they want to defund the police.

Most other nations don’t do it but the Brits seem to jump on this American bandwagon whose societal norms when it comes to racism and segregation are hugely different than that in the UK. Black people who are arrested by the police are no more likely to be shot dead than white people.

I’m white and fully support it so would ask the same question 🤷‍♀️

The people I have seen on Social Media who are against it seem to think there isn’t a racism problem in this country which is obviously bullshit.

'I disagree with that - it's historically a symbol of a Knight choosing to demonstrate respect, but is also loaded with the ability to launch into action at a moment's notice, compared to being on both knees as if in prayer or as a supplicant. It also features in Martial Arts as a Battle Ready position.

Those historical connotations are, in my opinion, exactly why racists find it so threatening to them. It's a clear message that 'I could rise and fight, I'm ready right now' and one that links to notions of chivalry/warriors.

Which, to me, isn't odd at all. It's a position of strength, not weakness - and is exactly why racists froth at the mouth over it.'

Great post, NeverDropYourMoonCup.

I wouldn't do it personally but don't have a problem if that's how people want to express themselves. I wouldn't boo it if I saw someone doing it

The England team may undertaken anti racism campaigns outside of taking the knee, the show racism the red card initiative is 25 years old. But it’s not working as last night proved. Based on comments I’ve read on MN, it’s getting worse, not better.

The target audience are not the people who endorse taking the knee and think of it as a beautiful gesture or who will be moved by campaigns.

How many generations from now will it take for racism to be a rarity?

It's how superheroes land.
Just saying.

^ in the UK

@Livelovebehappy

Taking the knee to me represents support for BLM. I don’t support their organisation. I don’t want the police to be defunded. It’s possible to support the stand against racism, but not to support taking the knee.

I agree with this. I am 60 and white and have taken the knee because I wanted to do something to support for the idea black lives matter. However, I am uncomfortable with a gesture that suggests I support the aims of Black Lives Matter as an organisation, which I don't.

I’m anti racism of course but lost respect for the BLM movement when I found out that they want to defund the police.

Did you look up what they mean by "defund the police"? You might get a shock.

I think all lives matter and no race should be lauded above any other.

LOL. I saw a message on Fb during the BLM demos of last summer: "saying 'All Lives Matter' right now is like interrupting Martin Luther King to say "Ooh, yes, last night I dreamed I was ice skating down the Thames..." ".

Of course all lives do matter - but if you truly think that all lives are treated equally in terms of race...well, look at the racial abuse that our young players experienced today and see exactly why 'taking the knee' is necessary.

I think it is too all teams' credit if whatever else is going on, no matter who wins and loses, they all know that they stand together against racist shit.

I am white and I have no problem with ANY demonstration or stand against racism.

@riceuten

And BLM a "vile Marxist movement" ? Someone needs to stop reading the Daily Heil

So you’re saying that the political moment of BLM rather than the sentiment has no Marxist links?

Be careful, I said ‘all lives matter’ earlier in this thread and my post was deleted …..

Is this meant to be a goady post OP? I’m a white person & I have zero problem with it. Not all white people think the same. Surely you know that.

Imagine if I’d started a thread with “Questions for black people.” It carries an assumption that everyone who is black must think, & act the same because of the colour of their skin.

Im white and don’t have a problem with people taking the knee

All of you who say you have taken the knee, when? I have no problem with it but can't think of any time when I would have had the opportunity to do so myself. Or do you all mean you've attended demos?

I am white. I have no problem with anyone who chooses to do it- if it means something to them, they should be free to take a knee.

Personally, I find it a bit gimmicky/symbolism and I’m not sure it has the impact it did to start with. I also think criticising people who don’t do it is also a bit off- I mean, surely you should only do it if you actually believe it to be a powerful symbolic gesture? If you are only doing it do avoid criticism or as virtue signalling, it loses it’s powerful message, surely?

I think that it is a bit virtue signally however what matters is that it’s making something unacceptable that used to be a real problem in football.

Just think how great if they could extend that to domestic violence. It rises by like 30% if the team lose so it’s really connected to football.

I’m anti racism of course but lost respect for the BLM movement when I found out that they want to defund the police.

Do you think that all the people demonstrating and protesting about the murder of George Floyd and the other racist murders of last year were demonstrating in support of the core manifesto of the actual BLM organisation, or against the murderous racism of some U.S police, large sections of U.S society, and the racism that is also rife in this country?

What do you think was their purpose in being in Trafalgar Sq? Outside the U.S Embassy? Demonstrating to 'de-fund the police' - or demonstrating against racism?

I'm loving the super hero landing and the knight ready to launch into action.

Its amazing how the same gesture evokes different images for people. I really like the idea of this being a position of strenghth as thats not how i felt about the position but now I can think of that instead.