Questions for white people: what is the problem with "taking the knee"

[Flayn]

1. What is the problem with taking the knee
2. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

Total platitude for the woke and means absolutely nothing

I'm loving the super hero landing and the knight ready to launch into action

Its very good and true!

@Nuffaluff

Answer from white person:

1. There is no problem with taking the knee.

Please do not assume that all white people think the same.

This.

But as you say @NeverDropYourMoonCup that's your opinion of it. Others may have a different opinion of how it makes the feel getting on one knee. Doesn't make a person racist because they have a different view point on it.
Are we saying all the people of colour who don't do it are racist also? Or are they okay to opt out?

As a white American, I am incredibly proud of those lads taking the knee. Colin Kaepernick is the legend who started something incredibly powerful and necessary. Regardless of your opinion on taking the knee, it has all of us thinking about racism, doesn't it?

In my experience, many of the people who denounce taking the knee as 'virtue signalling' are the same people who froth if someone doesn't wear a poppy.

@Smileyaxolotl1

For me it’s because it is intrinsically entwined with BLM. An organisation that is by its own admission on its UK website and go fund me is designed to destroy capitalism, eliminate the nuclear family and defund the police.

I also have some sympathy with the it’s too American argument, the whole BLM thing last year came about due to the murder of a black American criminal by a nasty, corrupt white policeman. While I have no doubt that racism still exists in the Uk the culture is very different.

To answer your last question any other gesture would be great and it being in support of Sterling’s anti racism campaign or Kick it Out would be excellent too.

This sums it up for me For me its because its a symbol for BLM, who is in my opinion a divisive political organisation and not a symbol for “let’s stop racism”. That said, I actually don’t mind them doing it because nowadays it does feel less about BLM and more about taking a stand against racism. So even though I don’t have a problem seeing it per se, I can understand others uneasiness when it’s associated with Black Lives Matter rather than black lives matter

I have looked up battle ready kneel and can’t find anything about it.

I also think knights kneel as a mark of subservience.

I did find pictures of US troops kneeling to shoot though, when looking for battle ready.

I have no issue with it

@MrsJuliaGulia

White person. It’s American symbolism. We are not American. I also hate politics in football. I’m anti racism of course but lost respect for the BLM movement when I found out that they want to defund the police.

Most other nations don’t do it but the Brits seem to jump on this American bandwagon whose societal norms when it comes to racism and segregation are hugely different than that in the UK. Black people who are arrested by the police are no more likely to be shot dead than white people.

Ahem

irr.org.uk/research/statistics/bame-deaths-in-custody/

Not shootings (we don't routinely arm police) but your stats are frankly bollocks. And this only goes up to 2014. there have been numerous high and low profile cases since.

@Secondbellini

I have looked up battle ready kneel and can’t find anything about it.

I also think knights kneel as a mark of subservience.

I did find pictures of US troops kneeling to shoot though, when looking for battle ready.

Didn't soldiers with shields kneel to form a ‘tortoise’ to protect the ones behind? That would be a Battle Ready kneel.

[quote CherryPieface]@ihatefish - what is it about Karl Marx’s theories that upset you?[/quote]
Well I could write an extremely long piece on this but it mainly involves criticism of systems from a solely ideological perspective without providing any viable alternative that is compatible with human nature. It’s creating chaos without any viable prospect of order. Most of it sounds great but the only alternatives are either pie in the sky and or open the way for even greater abuse. Eg take the central concept of alienation of Labour. To prevent this it is necessary to get rid of capitalism, attempts at (loosely) basing an alternative on marx’s (and probably Engels) theories on a wide scale have all ended in failure, the problem is fairly well set out in Animal Farm.

So using the BLM cries of defund the police, what is their workable alternative? Maybe you could answer that.

@Flayn

If it's too American, what form would be acceptable in the UK?

OP have you seen the England cricket team, they wear black shirts at the beginning of the game which have slogans 'we stand together against racism' and we stand together against sexism or homophobia etc. They all had a t-shirt with a slogan on the back and the commentor talks about discrimination as they line up.

I did not hear anyone booing. Although morons get in everywhere so not saying you will never hear a boo again, but it was getting the point across.

Maybe something like that for football might work better than taking the knee.

@Turdibacious

I think because historically, in Europe anyway, it's a gesture of subservience, like taking an oath of fealty to an overlord. So to me it seems an odd gesture to choose.

I would prefer to see people taking a stand against racism

This.

Think people need to understand Colin Kaepernick and his reasons as it's now a symbol of BLM, which is fine, but also a massive part is police brutality.

Love that Gareth Southgate was supportive of his players who wanted to take a knee. Good for him.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/23/the-killing-of-dalian-atkinson-trial-focused-on-a-minute-of-violence

Our police still manage to kill black people despite not being routinely armed.

It’s just pointless and politicising football. They should leave it well alone and just play the game.

You’re watching a football match for some fun, not for a political point at the start.

Zero problem whatsoever.

Those that have an issue with haven't fully understood the issue. Or are kings of whataboutery

@Ratalie

In my experience, many of the people who denounce taking the knee as 'virtue signalling' are the same people who froth if someone doesn't wear a poppy.

@Ratalie Meh. I must be an exception then.

I support freedom of speech and freedom of expression so I’ve no problem with people “taking the knee”, but I’ve also no problem with people being critical of it. I do have a problem with the violent thuggery and racism that was evident over the last 24 hours. Those people are an absolute disgrace.

‘Didn't soldiers with shields kneel to form a ‘tortoise’ to protect the ones behind? That would be a Battle Ready kneel.’

No, because the tortoise moves! Everyone is stood up.

I dont know a single white person who has a problem with ' taking the knee'

However we do all think it's playing lip service when racism in sport still isnt being tackled.

The technology is there for twitter to do more.

It's there to make sure these thugs cant get match tickets.

Hell the government could have done more, they were happy to rake in the money from a major sports event yet unpaid stewards were left to deal with violent, angry thugs. Thugs who shouldnt have had tickets.

Hell id go so far as to say I think children should be removed from these toxic households to give the poor sods a chance and to stop the rot.

Taking the knee means something to all of us. But until we all start to act it really means nothing.

@Flayn

1. What is the problem with taking the knee

1. How would you prefer athletes protest racism

I am a regular poster, under a changed name and speak 2nd language English - I know the passive aggressiveness some posters adopt for this topic.

I don't have a colour problem with taking the knee. I have a sex problem. The men doing this publicly are mostly from sports where womens' (that is adult born women) representation is pitiful across every aspect of the sport. I am afraid that until those same men support women more in that chosen sport and make significant progress, I simply don't have the time to support their issue/campaign. I am too busy dealing with other issues. Hope a different perspective helps your understanding. What are you doing to support women in those industries? (Think: motor racing, football etc)

I, nor anyone l know have a problem with it .

Ratalie Nope….