So embarrassed to be English today

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Usually I am slightly defensive of the criticism the English get but today I feel like I have nothing left to defend. Riots, defacing murals of wonderful role models for our children, racism, violence. Horrendous behaviour from a considerable number of English fans. We are just playing up to the thuggish, drunk, stupid stereotypes. That along with the decision to just open everything up which has been highly criticised for being bonkers, the never-ending shame of Brexit. For the first time I feel embarrassed to be English and associated with any of this. Having said that, I personally don't know a single person who behaved badly post match or spewed vile racism online (thank god). I also mainly socialise/spend time with left wing remainers it seems.

Does anyone feel the same? Are there any redeeming features of the English or are we doomed to be the laughing stock of the world? I was so proud of our football team (still am) and the unity and excitement everyone felt. Part of me thinks this would have been so different if we won but why should it be?! We should be able to respond to a disappointment like rational adults instead of abusive idiots.

The clips I have seen are not a few fans. It was hundreds and hundreds if not thousands. . I guess the fact domestic violence goes up in by England by 38% when England lose is a few fans too. The minimising is ridiculous this can’t be sweep under the carpet

I’m assuming that you must think all Italians are scum too, because thousands of them behaved pretty fucking poorly last night too! But most people have the ability to see that a few idiots don’t define the many.
And now you’re blaming domestic violence on football too!
Domestic violence also increases when England win. Or draw. And also when any other big sporting events happen. Or any other time scummy men are on the booze.

I am ashamed of our toxic allowance of disgusting football culture and it's association with underclass thuggish chav louts, racism and violence. Not anything else, especially.

You don't see this in any other sports. It shouldn't stand in football. I think there should be armed visible security in every stand at every football game (paid for by FA), and the moment any disgusting, thuggish, racist behaviour is witnessed- the person in question should be removed, with force if neccesary and banned for a year. No ifs, ands, buts, three strikes, warnings or 'second chances' about it. If you cannot behave with manners in public, you should be removed from the vicinity of decent people. Authoritarian, yeah. But clearly needed.

I've taken eldest DN to football game before, once and never again. It was disgusting the way many grown men acted and encouraged their DS especially, to act. These disgusting ill mannered people spoiled it for many other people, especially other men and children uncomfortable hearing F this F that and more for hours.

One man (no kids with him) distinctly looked uncomfortable at the horrific 'conversations' going on and then was the target of jeering by random thug x who noticed and started slagging him for being stuck up -.- ... until my DN barged passed him and stood next to this poor guy and I followed. Suddenly thug x got distracted by his other thuggish mates because he knew he wouldn't get away with picking on a kid and woman -.-

The culture truly makes me sick. I'm very glad DN lost interest after that game.

geamhradh The point I was making was that the Italian (and other Euro) press were not saying anything negative about England and the England team, as some posters seemed to assume they would be.

I can well imagine that there would be hostility and unpleasantness at a local level though and I hope you all made it safely through the night.

Reading the Italian press, there is a lot of condemnation this morning of bad behaviour and violence from Italian 'fans' (an attack on a tram in Milan, a police officer shot in Naples etc.) but nothing about how terrible the English are.

To be honest, the way this world is going, I'm embarrassed to be a human!
I'm not being ironic. I'm not a misanthrope. I like people. But, as a species we've lost our way somewhat. In terms of climate change etc. Unfortunately, it's an global condition. Particularly a western one...

I will never be embarrassed to be English. That tiny minority that boos and behaves appalling do not represent my country as a whole. They do not represent the people of all different cultures that make up the English. The way they behave is not who we are. They do not represent me, or my family.

Stop blaming the majority for the actions of a small minority.

@Changingstages - I don't think that a lot of us are minimizing the racism. We are saying loudly that it doesn't represent the majority of the English. It absolutely is a problem and it absolutely unacceptable.

However I don't think that this should make us all feel ashamed. It would be akin to saying that all muslims should be ashamed of jihadists when they have no allegiance or connection to them.

@emeraldcity2000 I read today that an employer of one of the racist tweeters has launched an investigation so let's hope he is thoroughly shamed

*a global condition

@Sakura7

Isn't that just par for the course though?

Booing of an opponent's national anthem is absolutely not par for the course. You didn't hear much of it at this tournament unless England were involved. A significant proportion of the English fanbase have absolutely no respect for other nations and feel superior to them. And they wonder why nobody wants to support them.

It's a minority, sure, but it's a significant one and they sure as hell get themselves noticed.

Denmark drowned out Wales’s national anthem. Ditto Italy and Spain together.

It’s a weird mixture of both a superiority and inferiority complex.

Only super special England displays these behaviours and the rest of the world waits with bated breath to report on it 🙄

I'm embarrassed by the people who seem to feel that a minority of dickheads represent an entire, multi-cultural nation of people.

Saying Are there any redeeming features of the English is utterly ridiculous. As ridiculous - and frankly, as offensive - as asking Do women have any redeeming features at all?

I can't stand the references to Brexit, older people, insularity, football, racist - all stupid, stupid, lazy generalisations by ignorant people. It's bigoted and ridiculous to tar everyone with the same brush.

Just be ashamed to be human.

"we would be better using our energy to stand up to the racism that seems so prevalent in football. "

Eh? we are!

Which poster on the thread said racism didn't exist? No one!

But I also think everyone in England (and this does apply to the rest of the UK, really) should acknowledge and accept we live in a racist society

Yes we do. I think the references to elsewhere are because it’s implicit in saying we should be embarrassed to be English that this is a problem in England.

If you acknowledge it is a problem everywhere then why should we be embarrassed to be English because of it? Or should every nation feel ashamed of their nationality because I think there’s sadly very few nations where people of colour have anything like equality.

Really racism makes you embarrassed to be human I suppose.

I think OP would have got different responses if she had said AIBU to think the behaviour of the football fans was wrong

I’m with you OP. The racist behaviour is quite upsetting. I am a migrant in this country who has lived here for 20+ years and today has been a sad day.

The sad thing is i knew exactly what was coming and prayed we would get that final shot just so those boys didn’t have to face what was coming.

I'm not proud, nor safe. Women and minorities are not safe, and the racial abuse online is people saying the things they truly think. They have jobs and children, and still think these things. That makes me fucking terrified, the furthest thing from proud.

Don't pretend it's not racist here.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

The clips I have seen are not a few fans. It was hundreds and hundreds if not thousands. . I guess the fact domestic violence goes up in by England by 38% when England lose is a few fans too. The minimising is ridiculous this can’t be sweep under the carpet

I’m assuming that you must think all Italians are scum too, because thousands of them behaved pretty fucking poorly last night too! But most people have the ability to see that a few idiots don’t define the many.
And now you’re blaming domestic violence on football too!
Domestic violence also increases when England win. Or draw. And also when any other big sporting events happen. Or any other time scummy men are on the booze.

No I didn’t say all domestic violence was blamed on football but the facts state that it goes up 38% when England lose at football. Yes it goes up also when they win hardly surprising . Win or lose Domestic violence goes up in England . I looked and I can’t see the domestic violence rises when rugby or Wimbledon is on so no you can’t blame all sport. It’s a football thing. Again I’m not talking about Italy fans you can deflect all you want. It doesn’t excuse what England fans get up to. It can’t se swept under the carpet as much as you are trying to.

It's not unreasonable, you feel how you feel, but I don't entirely understand being embarrassed by a demographic trait. I get embarrassed easily, but this doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe it's because I'm an immigrant who has chosen to be here so obviously I think there are enough redeeming features to go through all those expensive hoops, but something I've noticed is particularly with the English there is this black and white logical fallacy attitude of either being the best thing/we're better than X or we're the absolute worst, look how terrible we are, everyone mocks/hates us when really - just like every other country - there are things England and the wider UK excel at, things that desperately need improved, generally somewhere in between that could do with some tweaks and much of the rest of the world doesn't care much.

Even the few pieces on it I have seen from overseas on the racial abuse and violence, it's been brief and connected to what's going on where it's been written, not deriding English people as much as it seems some English people want to tear apart themselves for the actions of other English people. I mean, would you want any other demographic to tear themselves apart this way if other members of that demographic did something terrible? I don't think that's healthy.

The government's choices no more reflect English people than when we hear in the news about another country doing X horrible thing or saying Y nasty thing. Even in a democracy, our government is a large interconnecting systems of power that don't reflect us. It's a power tactic to discuss the actions of other governments as the actions of the nation and we should be wary to do it to others and just as much with ourselves.

Agree with Slippery. We DO acknowledge it. Who says we don't?

We are making progress. Or do you not think we are?

@FootballisgoingtoRome

The fact is domestic violence goes up in England 38% when England lose . Seeing the amount of people on this thread defending the racists as it’s so much worse in some other country’s is hilarious too. Lots of things are worse and better in different country’s . We should all just let all those racist attacks happen then as it could be worse . Geez listen to your logic I feel so sad for our children growing up in a country with this mentality. Those minimising and deflecting with whataboutery are part of the problem

No-one is defending racists, posters are stating that is it not purely an English problem in response to those who are determined to paint England and the English as the worst people and country on the face of the planet.

No-one is suggesting we just let those attacks happen they have rightly been condemned and an overwhelming majority of the English fans and English generally are calling for the Police to find them and prosecute them. The mentality is that this is NOT acceptable on any level.

Racist, toxic, aggressive, violent males are a scourge across the entire world, it's not just an English problem or a problem in England stop trying to make out it is.

@Puppysharness

I’m livid with rage at the treatment of Rashford, Sancho and Saka. I just don’t understand men. Would any of these cretins sending them racist abuse like to get onto the pitch and try to give them a run for their money?!

I don’t care about football but I do care about common decency. Especially given how young these 3 are.

Does this happen in other countries? Is it just us?

Yes racism is rife in football in other countries as well. Our players have been racially abused in Montenegro (I think it was) and the match was stopped twice in Bulgaria due to racist chants from the home crowd. Racism in football remains a big issue in Italy. It's honestly everywhere ☹️ It doesn't help that some of our football fans are also regularly violent at these big matches, there is a heavy drinking culture over here and that we have a long standing reputation for football hooliganism, so as a result everyone dreads our football fans and comes down hard on English fans (rightly so), even though their own countries fans can also be vile.

@Serenissima123

I have a lot of Italian friends, lived in Italy for a year and speak the language (I'm an Italian>English translator). I also have three black friends who live in Italy. The racism in Italy makes England look like an absolute utopia. If you are black and live in Italy, it doesn't matter how many years you've lived there or how well you speak Italian, you will always be treated like a foreigner who has just got off a dinghy from Africa. When my black Italian friend came to visit me in the UK, they couldn't believe how much better they were treated here, and how normal it felt to be black in Britain.

My 2 pence.

I have also lived in Italy, and was a regular attendee at football matches. That's why I'm a bit bemused by all the 'ashamed to be English' stuff here. Italy is much more racist and less diverse than England. In my time there - granted this was over 15 years ago - I thought that Italian football culture is years behind British football culture as regards attitudes towards race.

"Don't pretend it's not racist here."

Getting fed up now.

Not a single poster here has said it's not!

Placid Penelope indeed the Danish fans did boo our anthem you are correct.

But as Nigel Owens says "this isn't soccer"

So I think it's a football thing, it's wrong across the board, but I believe it's just the done thing in football sadly.

@Oblomov21

Agree with Slippery. We DO acknowledge it. Who says we don't?

We are making progress. Or do you not think we are?

I didn't say that, I said instead of wasting energy pointing out what everyone else does we focus on how we can change it