To be hurt they don't want to retain me

[TheLasrStraw]

I work in a school and had to tell them I have an interview elsewhere.

They made no effort to retain me, but I know they have done so for other staff.

I need to stay positive for my interview but feel dented by my school.

Words of wisdom welcome.

I am genuinely looking to move on.

I'm from a corporate environment so having to tell school I am looking feels weird especially as they're not bothered.

Totally agree with a previous poster. This could easily be about changes in school finances. Lots of schools struggle with budget when the birth rate in a local area declines, and depending on the phase of your school that could have been something that happened 4 or 11 years ago. Other times financial problems might be linked to a big expenditure that is needed like a roof / heating / fire safety.

It is weird.

Schools run on completely different lines to non-school workplaces.

I was a TA, wanted to leave, applied for new role - and was shocked to discover that you're supposed to give so much notice.

Which I hadn't done! Bless them, they let me leave anyway - but explained that I'd technically broken my contract.

Up until that moment it had never entered my consciousness that schools were so different. I still feel bad about it.

But they're very, very different.

I would also say that it is unusual to ask people to stay. Precisely because of the whole palaver around giving long notice to quit, it's pretty clear that people think hard about leaving - and asking people to stay can be perceived quite negatively.

It's a minefield!!!

2 years ago I got told 72 hours before the end of term that my contract was no longer being renewed.

TBH, I was devastated at the time but 2 years on, I got a job that I love in a team that have really supported me and Management that is great too. The previous place gave me skills to get my current role but I feel it was meant to be.

Good luck x

In schools you tell the Head when you apply for a job. Often references are called for before interview short lists drawn up. Heads expect to know they might be asked for a reference before it happens. If an interview happens, school needs to be told as there is no taking leave.

Schools operate job ap

, references and interviews

differently to other work places.

@TheLasrStraw

Yes I'm support staff and know of another member of support staff who was asked to stay.

Depends upon what you do.

It's easy enough to find replacements for 90% of school staff, from TAs and Receptionists to Head Teachers - but there are some jobs that they can't replace so easily because they require specialist knowledge and often specific knowledge relating to that one school. If you look at agency sites at certain times of year, you will see the huge uplift in pay for certain jobs whilst others stay at their current miserable rates. And then there other support roles that are nice to have somebody doing, but in reality, they know they can manage without for a bit as they'll get other staff to take up the slack.

If you haven't been particularly happy, finding the change in pace and decisionmaking structures in school agonising compared to private companies where you don't have to wait three weeks for somebody to make a bloody decision and then you get a massive urgent, must be completed in the next 45 minutes, four - six hour job dumped on you when somebody does finally get around to taking responsibility - it's not necessarily surprising to find that you are looking and it can be clear that something different would suit you better.

In addition, you don't know anything that's going on behind the scenes that might mean you leaving of your own free will is a good idea - for example, somebody could have come up with a case for making your role redundant at the most recent Governors' Meeting, or there's a plan to become a Harris/Ark/Whatever...

Most of all, though, it's better than being responded to with anger that you dare to be so disloyal as to be seeking alternative employment - that's something that I've seen in previous places, thanks to the deeply dysfunctional and toxic culture that led to people looking elsewhere in the first place.

@TheLasrStraw

I'm permanent.

They didn't ask why I wanted to move on, which I thought odd. I suppose it's obvious - some changes I didn't like have happened - but I just wanted an opportunity to say what had made me unhappy.

I'll focus on the new opportunity.

why?

You mention in a post that you are a permanent staff member, surely that means they have already retained you.

Forme (business setting not school setting) I only retain staff that outshine in there roles. If I have staff that plod along and do bare minimum then tell m they have an interview I wish them well but I won't ask them to reconsider or stat, equally,if they opposed new working ways I wouldn't ask them to stay either.

Have you voiced your opinions on the changes made that you don't like, maybe they see you as not being someone able to adapt to change so not right for their school

It seems a little petulant to me, that OP is 'hurt' they haven't begged her to stay.

In the normal workplace, people apply for new jobs and get them and leave. Then other teachers are hired to replace them. Simple.. It's the standard coming and going of the workplace and it needs to happen.

Few if any people are irreplaceable

Probably for the best tbh. Be very careful of counter offers if you're leaving. Usually only done to buy them more time until they make you redundant

But the equivalent of these points ^^ re decisions, last minute jobs etc certainly don't just happen in schools.

Op, don't take it personally - onwards and upwards

My post was aimed after the one by NeverDropYourMoonCup but others typed faster than me!!

@TheLasrStraw

I'm permanent.

They didn't ask why I wanted to move on, which I thought odd. I suppose it's obvious - some changes I didn't like have happened - but I just wanted an opportunity to say what had made me unhappy.

I'll focus on the new opportunity.

They’ve just accepted it at face value. If you want to say you’re unhappy, why wait until you’re saying that you’re going? Why not have a professional conversation at any point other than this? Once people say they’re going, as a boss you think they’ve been through their decision making process and you respect that.

My previous boss was very clear with his view that he didn’t view an employee as part of the organisation’s future, once they indicated an interview. He said if you didn’t get that job, you’d be applying for another to go at some point. Notice periods were ‘interesting’ there!

As for asking others to stay and not you, I think that clearly gives a message that you’re not seen as part of the school’s future. It seems the others had a desirable ‘something’ for them to aim to retain.

Good luck for your interview. If permanent they can only end your contract if have been through a process surely? So you’ve still got your job, if you don’t get the new one?

School staff are very open about interviews and progression, in a way you wouldn’t see in industry.

And generally, you leaving may solve a staffing and/or financial problem that has absolutely nothing to do with you personally, so don’t take it to heart.

Good luck in your interview!

Please don’t tell them why you’re wanting to move on because of the changes that have been made. You need a reference from them and giving them chapter and verse on why the changes are wrong, isn’t likely to encourage them to provide a positive one.

If you’ve come from a corporate environment, it will take some getting your head around the very different school environment. They might actually want to keep you, but can see you’ve mentally checked out. What if you don’t get the job you’re interviewing for? Will you stay?

@NeverDropYourMooncup,

Oh tell me about the “being disloyal” if you choose to leave! One of my ex heads came and sat next to me at the lunch table and started a conversation with the person opposite about how “ a candidate for Viques job” was visiting that afternoon. Ouch. It confirmed for me the reasons why I was leaving.

I think people not working in schools don't realise how employment processes are quite different.

There is none of this secretly applying for a job, telling no-one and taking a day of holiday for the interview, and only telling the employer after a job offer has been gained, when references are then finally taken up. And none of this giving a months notice and then being gone.

In teaching the labour market is very inflexible. People have to give a term or half a term of notice. So for a Sept start, someone would have to resign by May Half Term. Quite often, people get jobs 6 months ahead of starting. There is a tight recruitment window. With the May deadline, in the couple of weeks before then, most schools can be recruiting. They need to interview and offer on the same day and require an acceptance that day. If they don't work to this timescale and have already taken references, they find that their shortlist of 5 only has 2 turn up for interview as the other 3 got jobs the - days previously, or if they don't require acceptance on the day, the candidate might get another offer the next day.

Therefore, references are sought in advance. Schools know who is looking for a job on their staff and it is expected that immediately you are offered a job, you tell your original Head. They will likely advertise or even interview immediately because the timescales are tight. If a schools finds itself with several staff getting Sept jobsright at the May deadline, they might find they have a very limited pool to choose from....no teachers in existing jons available and able to give notice and just those without jobs or newly qualified....might not be a great pool.

Schools also have very little slack in their budgets. When someone is planning to leave who has some experience, there iften isn't spare cash to ask them to stay or ask them to take on more responsibility. And there is always the chance they can be replaced by a cheaper, younger teacher which can be very welcome for a cash strapped school, however much they like the exiting teacher.

Unless you do something really unusual that's hard to replicate, classroom teachers come and go to be honest. Most schools are glad to be able to hire a younger, cheaper model.

Schools also have very little slack in their budgets. When someone is planning to leave who has some experience, there iften isn't spare cash to ask them to stay or ask them to take on more responsibility. And there is always the chance they can be replaced by a cheaper, younger teacher which can be very welcome for a cash strapped school, however much they like the exiting teacher.

Yes-agree with all of this.

I don't know anywhere that tries to retain staff when they don't have another job.

Surely that's no point unless you have an offer somewhere else?

I work as Support staff in school, I have been treated appallingly and have said as much, hence my contract is not being renewed.
It’s been….difficult as for the most part I like the staff, but I can’t stand the higher ups and their carry on.
I got a new job and leave end of term, no one tried to keep me and it’s been made obvious they would like me to go! My replacement (other member of staff) is sort of doing my job whilst I am still doing it which is hideously awkward for everyone really.

My point is, schools are funny places. If your face doesn’t fit, if you don’t take the shit, if (like me) you were promised loads of training and more hours and none of that materialises and you are left very put out, then they tend to let you go.

It their loss, they lose some good staff this way, but there are so many people willing to put up with it all that it will never change.

Support staff at our school have to give a month's notice.
We have a high turnover of TAs, because we only recruit Graduate TAs and many use the role as a stepping stone to see if they like the environment before they go onto do their PGCE. They can resign in the summer holidays (by August 1st). Other support staff - still a month's notice.

School settings are very gossipy, at least the 3 I've worked in have been. If you don't like the changes, and made this clear to others, it may be that SLT have got wind of your views - could this be the case OP? Not saying it is, but it happens so often where I work. If so, it might be that they're not surprised you're looking around.

I don't think we've ever tried to retain staff; pay grades etc., are strict for all roles, and you can't just increase pay to keep someone in our school. You pay for the role, not the person.

If you want to say your piece, you can always ask for an exit interview, and if it isn't granted, air your views (in the right professional tone) in your resignation letter.

Good luck with the interview.