AIBU disabled DC and school trip

[Manic20201]

My DC class is going on a school trip at the end of term. They school are refusing to take them due to disability ( tube fed )
We have had medical clearance from health team and she has a trained 1–1.
AIBU to believe ( this is now nearly 4 years of never attending a school trip ) that it’s getting ridiculous. She is so sad about it and waited a long time to go.

Contact your MP by email and then, if you can stomach it being public, tweet them with the buzzword disability and discrimination and misuse of funding by replying the 1 to 1 to cover their ratio with the other kids. You'll get action pretty quick with that.

If my child had a broken leg and the school said 'your child can't come on the trip unless a parent comes with her' - I'd go. oh yes. Because a broken leg is so comparable to a lifelong disability. A broken leg which might inconvenience those around the child and the child itself for a few weeks at best.

Clearly you know absolutely nothing about disability, other than your clear dislike of the disabled and your need to claim some kind of justification to discriminate against them.

Let’s hope you don’t end up with a disabled child.

A broken leg? A fucking broken leg? You think that is comparable with whatever medical condition this child has that necessitates the use of a feeding tube? Are you serious???

For many parents of children with additional support needs, school is respite. Often the only respite that a parent/family gets from 24/7 caring responsibilities. The Government do, of course, financially support these families, if they deem it necessary.

To the value of 20p an hour.

20p an hour is the maximum caring allowance given to those who provide 24/7 care. Unless, of course, you're lucky enough to have more than one child with additional support needs, then you get to do twice as much care for the same 20p. Two kids = your time, your knowledge, your expertise is worth 10p an hour. Not the £9 an hour that the LA will pay a support assistant. 20p/10p/whatever.

School is respite. There is no reason the child should not attend this trip. If there was, the OP would not be suggesting she does attend. If it's safe for parent to attend, it's safe for the child to attend with another adult.

Broken fucking leg indeed 🙄🙄

Sorry, to correct my previous post, Carers Allowance is 40p an hour. I'd already halved it to allow for my two disabled children.

Sadly using the ehcp to fight it will depend on the wording of the Plan. So many are deliberately made using wooly words rather than having clear provision. So say things like “high level of adult support” rather than “25 hours a week 1-1”

I had to battle and quote laws to get them to clearly outline the 1-1 needed not just waffle

Carers allowance is an insult. Just the fact it’s based on 37 hours a week care - most of us have done that by bedtime on Tuesday!

@Sirzy

That broken leg will mean things are tough for a few weeks or months at the most. It’s not comparable with someone having a lifetime of being left out and left behind.

You really think not taking a child on a trip to the park is justifiable just because they are disabled? In what world is that ok

The OP didn't state if she was invited or declined to go. I'd imagine a child with a feeding tube - especially a stomach peg playing on climbing bars etc would be classed as high risk.

The OP said she didn't want to set a precedent of her coming to all school trips ( or in as many words) but the school will never stop doing risk assessments on this child as they do regard her as high risk.

And no one here really knows to what extent the childs needs are. There are many kinds of feeding tubes for different conditions. This child might be medically ok to go on trip but her needs are complex and the school feel this is too high risk for them to manage it alone.

@DumplingsAndStew

A broken leg? A fucking broken leg? You think that is comparable with whatever medical condition this child has that necessitates the use of a feeding tube? Are you serious???

For many parents of children with additional support needs, school is respite. Often the only respite that a parent/family gets from 24/7 caring responsibilities. The Government do, of course, financially support these families, if they deem it necessary.

To the value of 20p an hour.

20p an hour is the maximum caring allowance given to those who provide 24/7 care. Unless, of course, you're lucky enough to have more than one child with additional support needs, then you get to do twice as much care for the same 20p. Two kids = your time, your knowledge, your expertise is worth 10p an hour. Not the £9 an hour that the LA will pay a support assistant. 20p/10p/whatever.

School is respite. There is no reason the child should not attend this trip. If there was, the OP would not be suggesting she does attend. If it's safe for parent to attend, it's safe for the child to attend with another adult.

Broken fucking leg indeed 🙄🙄

We wasn't talking about respite. Thats a whole other discussion. Are you saying OP doesn't want to go on the school trip because she needs respite? I dont think that was the situation OP was describing at all.

And yes I agree a feeding tube is much much more complicated than a broken leg.

It’s exhausting just reading this thread. I can’t imagine what it must be like to have a Disabled child and have to fight for them just to be able to go on a school day trip. I can’t believe other people think the original poster should take a day off work / re arrange things that are to do with her child’s care so she can attend.
We have disability legislation for a reason. The school are acting unlawfully. In our society we say this shouldn’t happen. It’s awful that the original poster has to fight this. It shouldn’t be the case.

You would imagine wrong then.

Ds has been tube fed for the past 3 years. He can play and do whatever he wants. It has only come out twice in that time (fully inflated somehow!) neither of them where while playing and it was just a sign that he was ready for the next size up.

Absolute bastards.

Some excellent advice on this thread @Manic20201 as well as some unfortunate ignorant claptrap from certain posters

The school are also ‘stealing’ provision from your daughter by using the 1:1 on trips when DD isn’t there.

School is respite. Parents are denied restpite care on the basis that school is seen as their respite.

The time when the child is at school, (where all other children are,) with a 1-1 is considered the time for parents to be allowed time to themselves. So if they want time to themselves in addition to that then tough shit, because the LA are already providing respite in the form of an education, except when the school deem that to not be possible and want the parent to come along.

Now go and educate yourself. You’re just embarrassing now, and are coming across as really an unpleasant person.

That can't be legal can it? All children should have equal access to education regardless of disability. I'd take it further than the school tbh.

OP, this is illegal. Ignore all those saying that the school is being reasonable or has the right to override The Equality Act for health and safety reasons or any other such rubbish as they clearly don't understand the law.

FWIW I have been there, done that and got the T-shirt. A school must make accommodations for disabled children to go on school trips, attend musical concerts, play in sports matches and go on residential trips. There is no exclusion clause.

Whether a child with a disability should go on a residential trip is a pertinent question – but it is a question for the medical professionals and the parents, not the school. In this instance, if the medical professionals are happy for the child to go on the trip, and the child and her mother are both happy for her to do so, she cannot be excluded from it.

Of course, a school always has the option to cancel a trip entirely; what it cannot do is discriminate against an individual child. This is all enshrined in law, you need to tell the school they are acting illegally.

Oh sorry, I see it's not a residential trip, just a day one. Even more ridiculous then!

"This child might be medically ok to go on trip but her needs are complex and the school feel this is too high risk for them to manage it alone."

If a parent can do it then another trained adult can do it. It is incredibly risky for a child to expect their parents to be the only people who can meet their medical or other needs related to disability.

@scrambledcustard

And no one here really knows to what extent the childs needs are.

You are wrong. The OP knows what the child's needs are, and so does the child's medical professional.

They have both deemed it safe for the child to attend this trip, and neither have stipulated this is only on the basis of having the OP present.

But you know better, and the OP is just being cruel and skiving off. Obviously.

The 1-1 is there for your child’s needs and will be funded because of her needs. It is 100% discrimination if she cannot go, and this definitely needs to be escalated. Ask to see the risk assessment of the trip, and how your daughter impacts the trip. Ask to see what adjustments they will need to put in place in order to make the trip viable. If they cannot make any adjustments then complain.

This is awful, YADNU OP.

My DD has some medical needs which include a mobility problem, she's about to go into Year 3 and apart from the very first trip in Reception so that they could see how things needed to be handled outside of school I've never had to attend, and there's been no question DD would go. I might have to have a pre-trip meeting so that they can explain whose going (adults) and who DD will be with but that's about it.

My DD is at risk of falling and fracturing a hip or ankle, but school deal with it. No talks of ambulances or 2-1. She has 1-1 on trips but not in school. It's in her EHCP as such (she's with an adult at all times at school but sometimes has 1 or 2 other DC with her).

I'd be seriously considering a different school.

It’s not legal and the school not following the statutory guidance. There have been previous legal actions taken against such schools to provide precedent.

Complain to the governors following the school’s complaint procedure as it hasn’t been resolved by the SLT on this and previous occasions.

The guidance is as linked by a PP, assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/803956/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions.pdf

School trips are specifically mentioned, including on pages 22 and 23

‘ Unacceptable practice
25. Governing bodies should ensure that the school’s policy is explicit about what practice is not acceptable...
... • prevent children from participating, or create unnecessary barriers to children participating in any aspect of school life, including school trips, e.g. by requiring parents to accompany the child.’

It’s there in black and white. They have no excuse.

Your child's one to one is hers if she does full hours with your child. However the LSA might be being shared between two children. If solely there for your daughter they are using her provision to make up numbers and excluding her in the process. This is totally wrong. They need another staff member there. I really would escalate this up to and including legal action if necessary but check that the LSA is solely there for your child.

The school are really tying themselves up in knots over this.

The child has an EHCP, a funded 1-1 and written confirmation from Medical Professionals that there is no reason why the child cannot go on the trip.

The school are saying that the child requires 2-1, this is the schools problem to solve not that of the OP.

The school are also saying that the TA is going to be used for the general staffing ratio, therefore will not be going for the sole purpose of supporting the child as per the EHCP so the child won't have 2-1 support anyway even if the OP goes (which she can't do).

This is direct discrimination, a direct contravention of Equality Act 2010, and is maladministration.

If the child remains in school then they must provide an alternative 1-1, if they don't that is also maladministration

If the school state that they don't have a TA to support her 1-1 and she can't go to school, then that is also maladministration.

This needs challenging.

OP, take a look at the IPSEA and SOS!SEN websites they both have good advice and model letters and the relevant sections of the Equality Act that you can use to challenge it, in the meantime email the head confirming what has been said, start the complaints process now, this starts a paper trail which you will need to escalate this through the correct channels, your dd has potentially another 3? years at this school and if you don't challenge it then it will continue.

I had exactly the same issues with my Son's school 10 years ago (direct discrimination and victimisation).
Initially they took him on trips with his 1-1, then said that he couldn't go unless I went at the same time removing his 1-1 to use her as general staff - child ratio, then refused to take him unless I transported him to/from the location in my own car, then they refused to allow him on the trips altogether whilst also saying that he couldn't go into school instead because their was no TA for him (at this point he was funded for 32.5 hours per week and had extra funding for 2-1 when necessary). Their arguments for this discrimination were weak to non existent.

Good luck OP.

@scrambledcustard here is a list of some of the things my daughter (tube fed, poor balance, heart condition, Deaf, speech delay, learning difficulties, continence issues) has done on school trips (including residentials):

Kayaking
Stand-up paddle boarding
Terrifyingly high zip wire over a lake
Abseiling
Climbing
High ropes course thing
Rollercoasters (not really scary ones but she was little at the time. Heaven knows what she'd want to do now)
Laser quest shooty things in the dark
Archery
Go-karting (apparently she's a bit of a speed demon)
Assault courses

As well as swimming every week in primary with the other kids.

Her tube has never come out. When she does things where that feels a bit risky (like assault course type stuff where you have to pull yourself along the ground on your stomach) her TA made the radical adjustment of... sticking a bit of tape over it. All good.

I've never been on any of these trips (she'd be mortified) and neither have school asked me to go.

It doesn't feel like OP's daughter's school is really trying.

SENDIAS are really helpful and will help you fight this, kick up a huge fuss honestly this is awful on the schools part.

It depends on where they are going. A school environment is totally different to a school trip to some where they have never been.

Good teachers will have visited the place they want to take a trip with an eye to assessing its suitability and risk factors.

Good teachers will plan a trip with the least able of the class in mind.

Good schools will not accept teachers planning trips that don’t include everyone.

It’s basic bullshit to say it’s not possible to include 1 child ever on trips unless a parent is available.

Plan different trips that are doable without the parent coming, with the 1-1 doing 1-1 that they’re trained for and capable of doing, and the adult ratio made up by other parent volunteers if extra TAs or teachers are not available.

What does it teach the kids in class that one of them is always left behind? They might want to reflect on what lesson is most valuable to the majority - whatever’s at the end of that school trip, or fostering a social environment where everybody is valued and included.

OP, if your child was in my class I’d be right by your side insisting they change the trip.