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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU disabled DC and school trip

333 replies

Manic20201 · 11/07/2021 00:10

My DC class is going on a school trip at the end of term. They school are refusing to take them due to disability ( tube fed )
We have had medical clearance from health team and she has a trained 1–1.
AIBU to believe ( this is now nearly 4 years of never attending a school trip ) that it’s getting ridiculous. She is so sad about it and waited a long time to go.

OP posts:
scrambledcustard · 11/07/2021 12:35

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@scrambledcustard

And no one here really knows to what extent the childs needs are.

You are wrong. The OP knows what the child's needs are, and so does the child's medical professional.

They have both deemed it safe for the child to attend this trip, and neither have stipulated this is only on the basis of having the OP present.

But you know better, and the OP is just being cruel and skiving off. Obviously.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what the mother or the hospital have said. The school can't turn around and say 'but mum said it was ok' if there was ever a disaster. They have to do their own risk assessment completely independent of mum and hospital because the buck stops with them.

The school are trying to work with mum this isn't a blanket "no"

Also if OP takes this to court, she will be asked why she wouldn't meet the school half way.

scrambledcustard · 11/07/2021 12:37

@NoSquirrels

It depends on where they are going. A school environment is totally different to a school trip to some where they have never been.

Good teachers will have visited the place they want to take a trip with an eye to assessing its suitability and risk factors.

Good teachers will plan a trip with the least able of the class in mind.

Good schools will not accept teachers planning trips that don’t include everyone.

It’s basic bullshit to say it’s not possible to include 1 child ever on trips unless a parent is available.

Plan different trips that are doable without the parent coming, with the 1-1 doing 1-1 that they’re trained for and capable of doing, and the adult ratio made up by other parent volunteers if extra TAs or teachers are not available.

What does it teach the kids in class that one of them is always left behind? They might want to reflect on what lesson is most valuable to the majority - whatever’s at the end of that school trip, or fostering a social environment where everybody is valued and included.

OP, if your child was in my class I’d be right by your side insisting they change the trip.

She's not being left behind. She can go.
GaspGulpScream · 11/07/2021 12:39

I'm shocked at some of the responses on here. Some people should be ashamed of themselves
The trip should be for everyone
I've done lots of school trips with children who have additional needs and it's really no big deal. She certainly won't want her mum coming along. Bloody hell what kid would

Sirzy · 11/07/2021 12:40

The school aren’t trying to work with mum at all. The school are trying to take the easy option for themselves.

Do you really think it’s right that a child can’t access part of their education without mum there? Do you not think it’s important that young people get to experience things away from their Mum?

DumplingsAndStew · 11/07/2021 12:43

@scrambledcustard

Also if OP takes this to court, she will be askedwhyshe wouldn't meet the school half way.

The Equality Act and the statutory guidance for "Supporting pupils at school with medical conditions" (as linked upthread) completely disagree with your 'opinion'.

Exclusion on this basis is not legal, no matter how many times you insist it's okay.

Spikeyball · 11/07/2021 12:45

" if OP takes this to court, she will be asked why she wouldn't meet the school half way."

A sendist disability discrimination tribunal won't say that. What is your experience and training in special educational needs education law?

DumplingsAndStew · 11/07/2021 12:45

@scrambledcustard

She's not being left behind. She can go.

No she can't, because her mother isn't going.

You'd argue the sky was yellow, too, wouldn't you?

thing47 · 11/07/2021 12:45

Her right to go does not depend on whether her mother can go too – that is explicitly against the law (someone even posted the link for you).

We got endless excuses: 'it's not fair on the staff/not fair on the other kids/she won't enjoy it/we can't accommodate her need for private space to administer her medicines' etc etc etc. We just kept telling the HT that it was illegal to exclude her, on repeat until they got the message.

NoSquirrels · 11/07/2021 12:45

She's not being left behind. She can go.

She can only go if her parent accompanies her.

Her parent is at an important medical meeting for her child that cannot be rearranged.

Therefore the child cannot go and is being excluded. The school could rearrange the trip, reassess the supervision and so on.

They are excluding her, not including her.

Imagine if it was the case that the only children who could go were those accompanied by their parents. There would be general outrage.

DumplingsAndStew · 11/07/2021 12:47

@thing47

That's exactly it. This child is being excluded from an activity accessible by her peers on the basis of how the school perceive her presence to be for others (I.e. staff and other pupils)

Because this is a medical issue, this is not legal.

NoSquirrels · 11/07/2021 12:49

I’ve no idea why you’re so insistent on this scrambled unless you have some sort of vested interest. The OP has done everything they can and the school are the ones not adjusting.

It’s 100% on the school to solve this and include all their pupils, not on the OP.

Sirzy · 11/07/2021 12:50

It makes me sad that no matter how much we as parents try to instill an attitude of not letting their disability hold them back from things they want to do, or try to do, there are still so many barriers put in place.

The op isn’t asking a lot. She is simply asking her child be allowed to go on the trip like her peers can. Hardly unreasonable is it

3lovelykids · 11/07/2021 12:57

I find this shocking. I’m an SEN TA who is enteral feed trained. I take children away on residentials and also accompany them to hospital if necessary as their advocate. I really don’t think thry should be using her 1-1 in the numbers. She’s not there for that! You must be raging 😤

thing47 · 11/07/2021 12:59

Just as an aside, ime children are very rarely bothered by other children's disabilities – inquisitive, maybe, sometimes, but not in the sense of treating them any differently, or thinking they should be treated differently.

(Some) adults could learn a lot from children's natural bent towards inclusivity.

Looneytune253 · 11/07/2021 13:09

So if she didn't go then surely the 1-1 staff member would be staying at school with her? So the school would actually have more staff for the trip if she and the 1-1 went. They are genuinely making life harder for themselves. Or do they think you'll keep her off school if she's not going? I would clarify that ASAP and let them know you'll still be sending your daughter in so she may as well go on the trip

scrambledcustard · 11/07/2021 13:10

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@scrambledcustard

Also if OP takes this to court, she will be askedwhyshe wouldn't meet the school half way.

The Equality Act and the statutory guidance for "Supporting pupils at school with medical conditions" (as linked upthread) completely disagree with your 'opinion'.

Exclusion on this basis is not legal, no matter how many times you insist it's okay.[/quote]
The equality act doesn't over rule health and safety regulations. I'm sorry but it doesn't.

The school is required to 'make reasonable adjustments' to ensure the child can go on the trip.

They have. they asked the childs parent to go.

danni0509 · 11/07/2021 13:12

@Sleepyblueocean

"Because “mum will do it” seems to often be the easy option.

Well the easy option for everyone other than Mum and Child obviously."

Well we are 'special parents' don't you know. Or shit parents if we don't do everything everyone else expects us to do, however unreasonable the expectation is. And not forgetting 'difficult parents' if we dare to mention the law.

This fucker with gold shiny bastard bells on. 🤣

If I could like a post I would do a thousand times.

Sirzy · 11/07/2021 13:14

Expecting Mum to attend the trip is not reasonable adjustment.

Reasonable adjustment is school putting in place what is needed not expecting Mum to do their job

Aspinelli · 11/07/2021 13:16

*The school is required to 'make reasonable adjustments' to ensure the child can go on the trip.

They have. they asked the childs parent to go.*

That's not a reasonable adjustment.

scrambledcustard · 11/07/2021 13:17

@NoSquirrels

I’ve no idea why you’re so insistent on this scrambled unless you have some sort of vested interest. The OP has done everything they can and the school are the ones not adjusting.

It’s 100% on the school to solve this and include all their pupils, not on the OP.

They have adjusted. The asked the parent to go. Just like parents who are asked to go on trip when their children may need insulin injections.

This isn't new.

Many people have brought their own issues to this thread and are pushing for OP to get a lawyer and kick up a stink. Which I think is unfair and I know for a fact that the Equalities act does not over rule Health and Safety Legislations. The school have to show they have made reasonable adjustments - and they have.

OP has to work with the school on this one.

scrambledcustard · 11/07/2021 13:18

@Aspinelli

*The school is required to 'make reasonable adjustments' to ensure the child can go on the trip.

They have. they asked the childs parent to go.*

That's not a reasonable adjustment.

Depends on who is viewing that. Its very common for parents to attend school trips with children who need extra support. OP will have to prove why she is different.
NoSquirrels · 11/07/2021 13:19

The school is required to 'make reasonable adjustments' to ensure the child can go on the trip.

They have. they asked the childs parent to go.

That’s not the school making ANY adjustment at all.

How can you not see that?

Reasonable adjustments the school could make are planning trips not inherently unsuitable (although how a fucking park trip could be risk assessed as too difficult is beyond me), or getting an extra staff member or other parent helpers in the ratio, or adapting the trip to avoid the risky issues…

Putting the onus back on the parent is discriminatory and not a ‘reasonable adjustment’.

You’re wrong.

Original poster
Manic20201 · 11/07/2021 13:20

Hi sorry I have just come back and had to read through everything.

I’m not going to go in to specific details on DD. However she is cognitively abled. She has health needs yes, however the school do not need to do any medical cares in school hours. During the trip she will not be attached to anything. Her 1-2 is fully funded and employed from outside due to previous issues with funding. She is trained in emergency pack in case any tube etc is dislodged as well as the other members of the class.
She is fully funded for 32.5 hours direct 1-1.

OP posts:
thing47 · 11/07/2021 13:21

The equality act doesn't over rule health and safety regulations.

It absolutely does in a case like this. It is exactly what the 2010 Equality Act was designed to do, to place disability discrimination above such issues as as health and safety regulations.

There aren't any exemptions or exceptions, it's not a grey area which organisations can disregard. Take it from someone who has personally fought this battle with an ignorant school.

Sirzy · 11/07/2021 13:22

If a child needs insulin then a staff member should be trained and be able to do that on the trip too.

Parents should not be expected to accompany children on trips. That is not a reasonable adjustment.

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