Two Child Limit

[MobilityCat]

Will you be affected? Campaigners have lost their legal challenge to the government's two-child limit on welfare payments.
They had argued the policy breached parents' and children's human rights. The Supreme Court dismissed their case.
The rule, which came into force in April 2017, restricts child tax credit and universal credit to the first two children in a family, with a few exceptions.
It was one of George Osborne's most debated austerity measures.
The policy has affected families of about one million children. Campaigners described the decision as "hugely disappointing".
Full story here www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57776103

I stopped at what we could afford to look after , with both parents in well paid jobs. I think the limit is well overdue

I do think that changes to the benefits system need to be made - it is ridiculous that one my family members doesn't work, nor does their partner and yet have a beautiful house with a garden and 4 children and never had to worry about whether they could afford them or not whilst me and my partner do work, are stuck in a tiny unsafe high rise flat with no outside space and can only afford 2 children - I had to have a termination last year (thanks to a contraceptive failure) because we physically could not afford a 3rd and I have to live with that every single day for the rest of my life - sometimes it does feel like if we were unemployed we'd have a better life. And we aren't on particularly low wages either - my partner has a decent job and we aren't entitled to benefits - so yes, something needs to change BUT I also don't people to suffer and there are genuine cases who have, and who will continue to suffer under this change.

Would naturally lower the birth rate

How high do people think the UK birth rate is, it's been declining for years.

@coulditbecominghome

How do you know they weren't?

Well how did you end up in the family then @lynsey91?

What exactly are you going on about? The insurance would be for circumstances changing like losing a job etc.

My parents didn't even receive child benefit for me as I am the eldest so they certainly did not scrounge off taxpayers

@coulditbecominghome

Would naturally lower the birth rate

How high do people think the UK birth rate is, it's been declining for years.

This. Every year it’s lower than the previous one.

It sounds like most of you belief that those who can afford it and those who have a sufficient savings for change of circumstances should have kids hmm. So those who face financial barriers need to not have kids I.e poor people because that's who this affects

Nobody’s saying don’t have kids, they’re saying stop at 2 if you’re relying on government money to pay for their essential needs.

The welfare state did not come to being for this purpose. Welfare was meant for people in their time of need, it wasn't a life choice and it still isn't. We are living in a time of free contraception, free education, we have choices. Choosing to have our children should not just be an emotional choice but it should be an economic one too. Simply if you can't financially support a child you shouldn't chose to have one. There are so many opportunities now to ensure that we can make that choice. Education, healthcare services all have led to this.

@Whatinthelord

Starting to feel decidedly ‘Daily Mail’ in here.

I thought family size reduced inline with increases in education, wealth and access to healthcare?
Poorer, less educated populations tend to have larger families. So, from that stand point, wouldn’t it be better for people concerned about overpopulation to support better benefits, better access to healthcare and education?

…but na….let’s take a few quid of the families of vulnerable children instead.

Bang on.

@Boomclaps

Most people aren’t career parents. Most people who need benefits for more than 2 children accidentally find themselves a victim of circumstances. Accidental pregnancy, loss of jobs, one parent becoming a widow, a life changing illness or injury.

I DONT UNDERSTAND PEOPLE SAYING DONT HAVE KIDS YOU CAN’T AFFORD EITHER. Like what are you going to do, will a crystal ball and see into the fucking future for goodness sake.

Yes I get the people could only have wjat they can afford but everyone can be a victim of circumstances
What if Susie and Jim, who once brought home a six figure salary in their thirties and decided to have 5 kids when they were fiscally stable between the ages of 36-43. Bang on - couldn’t have done it better.
They were in a tragic car crash. Jim and 2 of their kids got life changing injuries, one with an acquired brain injury, one a quadriplegic and the other lost a leg. Jim, with his brain injury could no longer work as a GP partner, but at set up they didn’t factor in anything for this.
Susie gave up work as a band 8 nurse deputy director because she couldn’t get carers that could meet the needs of all her now sick dependents and having 3 groups of carers was intrusive and scary.
However because Susie and Jim had their children in December 2012, august 2015, April 2017, January 2019, and November 2020 they will only be able to get social security for their youngest 3 despite paying into the pot via tax and NI for 25 years. They were also higher rate tax payers

MISFORTUNE DOESNT DISCRIMINATE

Why did Susie and Jim have 5 children? Oh because they were selfish and stupid. If they had stuck to 2 they wouldn't have the problems would they?

@youngandbroken

I do think that changes to the benefits system need to be made - it is ridiculous that one my family members doesn't work, nor does their partner and yet have a beautiful house with a garden and 4 children and never had to worry about whether they could afford them or not whilst me and my partner do work, are stuck in a tiny unsafe high rise flat with no outside space and can only afford 2 children - I had to have a termination last year (thanks to a contraceptive failure) because we physically could not afford a 3rd and I have to live with that every single day for the rest of my life - sometimes it does feel like if we were unemployed we'd have a better life. And we aren't on particularly low wages either - my partner has a decent job and we aren't entitled to benefits - so yes, something needs to change BUT I also don't people to suffer and there are genuine cases who have, and who will continue to suffer under this change.

Sad that you don’t think we need to up services and improve things for people in your circumstances (rent controls, no child benefit cap, lower tuition fees) but rather put your energy into taking from others.

@coulditbecominghome

Surely everyone knows anything can happen and circumstances can change suddenly?

No one is disputing that.

My point is it's stupid to think "if couples all stuck to having 1 or 2 children there would be no problems if something happens such as the main earner dying."

So come on @lynsey91 who are you insured with then. I would love to know a mid market insurance product that completely alleviates the financial impact of a parent dying.

Wouldn't there be any widows pension payable by the state.

How many dc do you think it should be capped at?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers no I don't want to take away from others that is my point I think the benefit system needs to expand if anything to include people who are struggling.

@lynsey91 I don't think it's that hard to understand.

You said

"As I said, if couples all stuck to having 1 or 2 children there would be no problems if something happens such as the main earner dying."

I then asked what insurance exists that completely mitigates the financial impact of a parent dying.

Your reply was

* "Me and DH chose not to have children because even 40 years ago we knew the planet was overpopulated*"

I then asked how come your parents weren't so enlightened....

I know someone who had a 4th child so she could breast feed before she got her boobs reduced , as she couldn’t afford to buy larger sized bras , I’m sure a bra would be cheaper than raising a child , and she was on benefits

@hulahooper2

I know someone who had a 4th child so she could breast feed before she got her boobs reduced , as she couldn’t afford to buy larger sized bras , I’m sure a bra would be cheaper than raising a child , and she was on benefits

How could she afford the operation or did the NHS fund it?

How can someone "ensure" they can afford kids for their entire future, or even the next 18 years? You might have a good idea but to "ensure" you're essentially saying you need tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds in savings before you conceive.

Life insurance, health insurance. Savings. Careers going in the right direction. Getting on the property ladder and budgeting for the cost of raising each child rather than just having 3 and hoping for the best?

@Gingerkittykat
Some of those circumstances need extra considerations but grandparent comes to stay?
Are you for the real? What do people living in overcrowded houses do when a grandparents come to stay? They make do.

My parents didn't even receive child benefit for me as I am the eldest so they certainly did not scrounge off taxpayers

So now people who receive CB are scroungers? A lot of people receive that.

When were you were born? I'm pretty sure my parents got some old form of CB as it wasn't means tested.

@hulahooper2

I know someone who had a 4th child so she could breast feed before she got her boobs reduced , as she couldn’t afford to buy larger sized bras , I’m sure a bra would be cheaper than raising a child , and she was on benefits

Yeah, of course you do. And a pig just flew past my window.

People are saying that those on benefits should get more benefits if they choose to have more children. However, for working people, they don’t get more pay from their employers if they want a larger family (and some people earn similar amounts to those on benefits).

I know that probably over simplifies the situation, but it correlates to the ‘cutting your cloth’ analogy.

@woodhill would a widows state pension completely mitigate the loss of an earning parent.

How many dc do you think it should be capped at?

I don't think it should be capped because I don't believe the vast majority have 7 kids for benefits. I would also like more money spent on disadvantage children.

@StrangeToSee but those things are a privilege. For one most young people can't get on the property ladder despite careers going in the right direction. I like many was helped by my parents.

@lynsey91 I hope you have invested heavily in robotics, or your expecting other people’s children to care for you in old and age keep a stable economy for you. How selfish to make a deliberate choice to have other people’s children sustain your future existence.

No I'm sure it wouldn't but it is the worse case scenario

@MyDcAreMarvel I presume she has insurance for that!