To think if the NHS have such a recruitment crisis…

[Michaelknightsleatherjacket]

They could maybe tweak their recruitment policies and educational options to make it attractive for mature students and ‘returners’ to the workplace to train for clinical roles?

I believe they also got rid of the bursary for nursing degrees. That seemed crazy to me given that nursing degrees involve work placements so not like you can do a part time job on the side, and probably really limited the people who could afford to apply.

The NHS is one of the most flexible employers there is!

If you're talking about nursing, it's a degree level course so if a candidate hasn't had evidence of recent academic study they'll struggle. There are other ways in via nursing apprenticeships, foundation courses in health studies, experience working as a HCA and the old NVQ route. A good way to see if you are suitable is to get practical experience on the wards or in a health care environment.
I do believe there's a huge increase in numbers applying this year. Not sure why so many suddenly want to be nurses now considering the appalling working conditions - the 1000s leaving/retiring at the moment should tell you something. No doubt it's because of job stability at time when many jobs just don't have that...

I agree op, the NHS may be flexible, but the training required to get there isn't. I started a mental health nursing course as a mature student last year, I had to leave, even though I was so upset to do so because during covid when schools were off there was no leeway whatsoever for parents. So I'm now in debt for the part I did, and they lost a student who would of been good. Considering the NHS are in dire need of MH nurses you would think a bit of flexibility would go a long way.

YANBU at ALL.

www.gov.uk/get-undergraduate-student-loan

Student loans are available to students who already have a higher education qualification, as long as they are studying for a healthcare related role

I don’t think the problems is filling places on courses - most are over subscribed. It’s getting people to stay in the job once they’ve trained (rather than going part time / private practice / to Australia) and stopping people retiring early (burnout, stress, etc).

Not sure why so many suddenly want to be nurses now considering the appalling working conditions - the 1000s leaving/retiring at the moment should tell you something. No doubt it's because of job stability at time when many jobs just don't have that...

Job security with career average pension is actually a very attractive proposition. I left the NHS years ago but still realise the advantages over the private sector.

Do you have any ideas op?

@toomuchfaster

The NHS is one of the most flexible employers there is!

Yup. When I was a junior solicitor we had a few nurses come out of the NHS fancying retraining.

They wanted work experience before sinking the course fees for conversion etc.

They looked horrified when they saw how shit the pay and benefits were. Unless you wrok in corporate law you'd be surprised. Recommneded trainee minimum wage was and still is lower than a nurse just qualified.

10 days paid sick leave. Sod all pension.

They all ran back to the NHS they said was so awful 🤣

Are you thinking there's a crisis in recruitment to roles - quite possibly, or a crisis in recruitment to training course - absolutely not. There are loads of applicants for healthcare degrees!

I'm a senior lecturer on a healthcare course. I'm not sure what you mean - do you think we should lower entry requirements? Because I would disagree - we get plenty of applicants and we need a high calibre of students. Even with the 125 ucas points (I think) some students struggle - we have plenty come via an Access course, rather than A levels which helps mature students.

They now get at least a 5k if not a 7k nhs grant which they don't have to pay back, on top of normal student finance.

What do you think needs to be changed?

@Morred

I don’t think the problems is filling places on courses - most are over subscribed. It’s getting people to stay in the job once they’ve trained (rather than going part time / private practice / to Australia) and stopping people retiring early (burnout, stress, etc).

Either they pay properly or just accept there'll be a big turnover of staff, like call centres.

@titchy

Are you thinking there's a crisis in recruitment to roles - quite possibly, or a crisis in recruitment to training course - absolutely not. There are loads of applicants for healthcare degrees!

This. Qualified staff are leaving quicker than new ones can be trained!

The 'bursary' is back = £5000 a year for nursing - £6000 for mental health nursing

@Strongswans that was exactly what happened to me.

Placement during the school holidays/night shift, husband works away and no one to look after ds or financial help for childcare (£30 a day). I just couldn't do it all and couldn't afford it when I didn't have a wage and husbands wage was paying for everything.

I had 3 days off the entire 1st year when ds had pneumonia and you'd think I'd killed someone. I was told I wasn't dedicated to my studies, I would make a terrible hcp. I was struggling big time with the exams, the coursework, ds, trying to afford all the childcare, spend time with him while studying and when he got poorly I was not supported.

The recruitment crisis is that no-one wants to stay once they have joined.

I'm in a shortage speciality and will never work for them on an employed basis again. Every year I do my mandatory training where we are all agency staff and everyone has a story - bullying, crap pay, BAME staff not being promoted, poor support for those with health problems. And now Covid - our trainer freely said working on Covid wards had been the end of her NHS career as she had found it so traumatic.

All of us have gone for better money and better working conditions.

No not nursing.
I’ve seen something which is offered from trainee level as an apprenticeship. I’ve done something entirely different (self employed/ better paid but very niche and an industry affected badly by the pandemic) for 15 years, and think I have lots of transferable skills. The reality is that the way the application form is formulated it just looks as though I have zero traditional qualifications post gcse, and it’ll probably be immediately rejected.
I don’t need flexibility, as I had children very young, and now they’re adults. (Which is the reason I fell in to working in the industry I had a ‘talent’ for, rather than something like medicine, which I’d have liked to do but was too demanding with small babies). Anyway that ship has well and truly sailed, but now I really crave a career that amongst other things has a) job security, b) ongoing exciting learning possibilities and training c) people… my job is quite solitary.

Nursing had been converted to a graduate role long before the scrapping of the bursary. Also the grants and finance packages offered now to student nurses mean that students nurses actually are financially better off then when I trained with the traditional bursary.

In addition to this there are more entry pathways to nursing then ever before, all of which result in the student gaining a degree or foundation degree which can be topped up. There is now the new nursing associate role (paid at band 3 while through the whole corse). The assistant practitioner role (band 3 while training). The new nursing apprenticeship (paid band 3/4 while training). The traditional university route (grants and student finance). Secondments (fully funded).

Other roles such a ODPs, OTs, sonographers etc. all offer the opportunities to learn and earn. So not really sure what else the NHS can do to encourage people to get into these roles. They are not roles that just anyone can walk into, do a bit of online learning and be good to go. They require a lot of time, commitment and passion from the student in order to gain enough knowledge and experience to practice safely and effectively. X

Anyway I realise that sounds as though I should just put the graft in and go back and do the necessary A levels and I imagine that’s what I’ll do. But I assumed (incorrectly I suppose) that one of the brilliant things about trainee level apprenticeships is that they offer a more ‘hands on’ practical route into certain careers rather than the typical college/ exam path, and that because you get paid, it’s easier than taking an unpaid career break to retrain.

For apprenticeships it's actually better not too have too many relevant skills. An apprenticeship is only valid if it's teaching substantial new skills.

@Michaelknightsleatherjacket

No not nursing. I’ve seen something which is offered from trainee level as an apprenticeship. I’ve done something entirely different (self employed/ better paid but very niche and an industry affected badly by the pandemic) for 15 years, and think I have lots of transferable skills. The reality is that the way the application form is formulated it just looks as though I have zero traditional qualifications post gcse, and it’ll probably be immediately rejected. I don’t need flexibility, as I had children very young, and now they’re adults. (Which is the reason I fell in to working in the industry I had a ‘talent’ for, rather than something like medicine, which I’d have liked to do but was too demanding with small babies). Anyway that ship has well and truly sailed, but now I really crave a career that amongst other things has a) job security, b) ongoing exciting learning possibilities and training c) people… my job is quite solitary.

Whether you go in learning on the job as an apprentice, or via a degree, you'll need some experience in a related field - can be voluntary, casual, but either way I suspect you'd need some experience to talk about.

So why not do an Access course for a year, alongside a few hours a week of related voluntary work, then take a two-prong approach and apply for both degree courses and apprenticeships.

Thanks @titchy that’s probably good advice.

An alternative approach, from yesterday's FT:

UK ministers are allowing lorry drivers to work longer hours in an attempt to solve an acute staff shortage that is disrupting deliveries and threatening to push up consumer prices.

Haulage is one of several sectors where emerging labour shortages have been exacerbated by Brexit, with operators now unable to recruit from the EU to replace drivers who returned to their home countries during the pandemic. Employers have reported similar, intensifying pressures in hospitality, care, construction and food processing.

Brexit dividend - sovereignty means we can deregulate. It's time we stopped all this woke nonsense about "doctors must have a degree". It really is political correctness gone mad. A GCSE in biology is more than enough.

@Michaelknightsleatherjacket

No not nursing. I’ve seen something which is offered from trainee level as an apprenticeship. I’ve done something entirely different (self employed/ better paid but very niche and an industry affected badly by the pandemic) for 15 years, and think I have lots of transferable skills. The reality is that the way the application form is formulated it just looks as though I have zero traditional qualifications post gcse, and it’ll probably be immediately rejected. I don’t need flexibility, as I had children very young, and now they’re adults. (Which is the reason I fell in to working in the industry I had a ‘talent’ for, rather than something like medicine, which I’d have liked to do but was too demanding with small babies). Anyway that ship has well and truly sailed, but now I really crave a career that amongst other things has a) job security, b) ongoing exciting learning possibilities and training c) people… my job is quite solitary.

You don't know that though, you are assuming you'll be rejected.