To think if the NHS have such a recruitment crisis…

[Michaelknightsleatherjacket]

They could maybe tweak their recruitment policies and educational options to make it attractive for mature students and ‘returners’ to the workplace to train for clinical roles?

In fact the reason the access course wasn’t my first thought was because I like the thought of swapping one paid (high pressure/ demanding/ unsociable hours) job for another, (paid albeit paid less) job , rather than spanning the next year trying to sustain self employment in the precarious post-covid landscape of my industry while doing an access course and voluntary work on top.

Far too many jobs require degrees nowadays. The old SRN and SEN route brought many into nursing, my cousin included.

I agree OP about making it more attractive for those who want a second career in nursing.

As a registered nurse. I will NOT work there ever again and I'm 31. Much better since I left. Work as a specialist nurse on a better salary mon to fri whatever annual leave I want. We close for Xmas.

When I worked as a specialist nurse in the NHS I was bullied horrifically. Much better since I left and great training etc

Sheffield hallam was an amazing uni btw very supportive. Also why work on a ward for peanuts and so much stress?

Specialise and get better hours. Or work as a community nurse - much better

It's not recruitment that's the problem, it is retention. I've worked in the NHS for 30years and have seen so many staff give their all and completely crash and burn out. The nurse bashing on MN and other sites is horrendous. I'm not saying they should be exempt from criticism but the levels of vitriol No wonder they are sending us all on resilience courses.
We went without a pay rise for years and years and then got shafted by a duff deal that meant many actually took a pay cut.
I'm currently working my notice, the trigger for me was recognising that my 19 year old apprentice DS takes home more than me. I work 3 days in a top of band 6 role (ward sister level), its not an exaggeration to say I make decisions that if I get wrong will result in life changing injuries. On top of all that we have constant changes to our IT systems and working policies, take a week off and it's like coming back to a different workplace, oh and did I mention revalidation and the constant need to prove our worth.
It's so not worth it.

I suppose retention is the reason that the recruitment process for apprenticeships is still so very much grades/ ucas points focused then. Presumably it demonstrates commitment when large tuition fees are involved, and covers everyone’s backs for when the new recruit burns out! At least they can say well… she looked dedicated enough on paper!

What I find stressful is that the NHS band 2 assistant roles, which would be really useful for gaining experience before committing to study for the relevant allied health profession, all seem to specify patient care experience, and sometimes skills like cannulation, etc., as essential criteria. How are you meant to acquire those skills, if these are the assistant-level roles?

Also, there seems to be a catch-22 in that if you're looking to go back and study and already have a degree and lots of other work experience, then you're not a great candidate for a band 2 role that likely involves a significant pay-cut and drop in responsibility and requirements compared to your current role, as why would they hire someone who's likely to be using it as a stepping-stone before returning to study? But at the same time, the courses want you to have that kind of experience (rightly so).

It's very difficult. There is a health profession I would LOVE to retrain in, but I just can't see how, realistically.

@ShitPoetryClub

It's not recruitment that's the problem, it is retention. I've worked in the NHS for 30years and have seen so many staff give their all and completely crash and burn out. The nurse bashing on MN and other sites is horrendous. I'm not saying they should be exempt from criticism but the levels of vitriol No wonder they are sending us all on resilience courses. We went without a pay rise for years and years and then got shafted by a duff deal that meant many actually took a pay cut. I'm currently working my notice, the trigger for me was recognising that my 19 year old apprentice DS takes home more than me. I work 3 days in a top of band 6 role (ward sister level), its not an exaggeration to say I make decisions that if I get wrong will result in life changing injuries. On top of all that we have constant changes to our IT systems and working policies, take a week off and it's like coming back to a different workplace, oh and did I mention revalidation and the constant need to prove our worth. It's so not worth it.

He's only over £30k a year as an apprentice?

Hi op, of course I could be wrong but its not an apprenticeship that's related to psychology is it? If so you should know it's stupidly popular, all psychology roles and training pathways have 100's of applications. And I have to say the core undergraduate training really is necessary...im sure an OT will be along shortly to say the same thing and they'd be correct The problems are in pay and working conditions, we need the bar to be high for requirements to create competent clinicians, but then we also need to value them🤷‍♀️

My 18 year old is looking at degree apprenticeships across abroad spectrum of industries. One in insurance (28k starting) , one in the food industry (26k starting). They pay you through a degree, and on top of that , with both I’ve mentioned , no contractual obligation to remain with that company on completion of the degree. Their retention of staff at both are extremely high though. I know of friends children who’ve done similar in banking and tech , with similar starting salaries, so I don’t think it would be unheard of in some places @Noterook

As a band 3 working in the nhs just a word of warning it can be very hard to progress without the exact tick box qualifications . I had six years experience in my old role and couldn't get a band 4 as I didn't have a specific nvq despite having a levels a degree and a pgce abs brilliant references...it can be a very arduous path to progress it's very frustrating and not all managers are keen on nurse associate routes etc...I'm now looking into graduate entry nursing - a two year course-the same length of time to become a qualified nurse that would be the same time as doing the nurse associate and going up just one band!! Just have to accept I'll need to borrow a bit of money and not be earning much

@hettie no, it isn’t. I’m sure this also has a high number of applicants though too.

@toomuchfaster

The NHS is one of the most flexible employers there is!

I take it you don't work there or you got lucky! It's certainly not flexible here

I suppose if it's a popular course they don't need to tweak it to make it more appealing to mature students - midwifery for example always is the one that seems like it would be beneficial to have life experience but has high entry requirements and is a very intense course and certainly not family friendly but then the job itself would be intense, shifts, long hours, working Christmas Day etc so I guess you need to show you're prepared to do all this as it's the reality of the job

That's probably why they specify previous health work experience. By that point you have already become accustomed to the grinding shift work, nights, family unfriendly hours, worked to the bone and it's not a complete culture shock

Yes this!

Oh it turns out I don't seem to be able to quote or reply! I was agreeing with the trainee solicitor point.

@Sanguinesuzy @Thirtyrock39 yes , I guess it’s because grinding shift work, nights, family unfriendly hours , working Christmas Day, and intense long hours have been part and parcel of my self employed job , and I raised my children alongside doing it full time, that I feel I have some transferable skills!

I will still encourage my daughters into health or social work though. Prob more social work though tbh. I love my job I love people. I love seeing people change and improve. I just won't work for the NHS again.

YABU- mainly because it is not the NHS that recruit for training but universities. I trained way back when things had just changed from nursing schools to universities and the retrained as a social worker about 15 years ago.

Universities are businesses now, getting a place is not hard. The suitability of those accepted is questionable. I am not sure about nursing- both subjects require placements and I do not see a way around that. However, the non- academic entry requirements for social work are far less than they used to be. I had to have 200 + hours relevant experience and the minimum age was 25. Intakes were about 20 of which half dropped out because it is not for everyone.

Social work is more academic than nursing, in that you have to be able to work independently and also to the level of an expert witness. That is not to say it is harder, just different. However the capability of the huge intakes of students we have to find placements for is very varied. Very often we have students who are masters degree level who cannot write a simple assessment.

The system is very wrong, there is no way that all those these huge intakes will all find jobs because they are not employable. However universities depend on filling places. There is support for single parents with child care because I have been a practice teacher for many. Shift work no- because it does not exist. When you qualify you still need to find childcare. That is the reality.

Thing is the NHS is incredibly hierarchical. To a certain extent you are supposed to know your place and not deviate. Your experience in a better paid, demanding, high pressured job means nothing if you haven't had patient facing experience, even if said skills are transferable. I've seen very confident more mature student nurses come a cropper in the past because certain staff choose to view it as arrogance rather than natural enthusiasm. I once mentored a student nurse in her 50s who was extremely forward with consultants etc. She had a high paying responsible job dealing with professionals in a previous life. Nothing wrong with that, but she came across as over familiar rather than merely engaged. I wasn't overly bothered but others were and made her life difficult.

I’m a 40+ wannabe career changer. I already have a degree so I wouldn’t be eligible for another student loan. So for me the course would have to be fully funded. As far as I know the only one that’s fully funded is nursing? I don’t want to be a nurse. And it’s not fully funded to train as another type of HCP - is it?

I recently did a healthcare degree.
I had to go on placement whilst studying. Working 30/35 hours a week without being paid isn't exactly tempting to people.

Tbh I don't think they even need to be degrees! I believe nursing and radiography for example used to be diplomas.
I came out with a first class honours and it wasn't particularly challenging. The access course was far harder! Alot of the degree felt such a waste of time. Some things were clearly added in to pad out the degree.

I've gone into the private sector now. I work 4 days a week, no weekends, no nights, no bank holidays.

@PRrabbit, there are degree apprenticeships where the NHS effectively pay for your degree .
But also, I read this, as of 2017:
"Students who already have a degree and are planning to undertake a nursing, midwifery or allied health profession subject as a second degree will now also have access to student loans through the student loans system". So you may be eligible but whether you’d want a second load of debt is another matter!

Makes sense @Sanguinesuzy.