Do we need to split this or do I need to get my shit together?

[dustyflipflop]

I am prepared to be told either.
I'm pretty shit at housekeeping and fairly messy so maybe it's just the fact that I'm so unorganised that I can't keep on top of things.

DH works Mon-Fri usually 8-5.30/6pm, non manual job, sometimes requiring nights away and generally always open to a phone call even on an evening and usually finishing bits of paperwork whilst on the sofa on a night.
I work PT 3 days a week fitting around school hours, it's a flexible role and I can pretty much pick and choose my hours as long as I hit the deadlines. This means I work school hours on the 3 days my youngest is at nursery and then evenings and also in between when I can fit an hour in or so to keep on top of stuff sometimes more sometimes less. I do all the school runs and drop offs for obvious reasons.
2 days a week my youngest is at home with me and on one of them we do an activity together.
We are all (4 of us including primary aged dc1) at home on weekends.

Considering I am at home with dc2 for 2 days in the week not counting the 3 hours for the activity on one of the days is it safe to assume I should do absolutely everything to do with the house?
If so then why can't I crack it?

I do all the cooking, laundry, cleaning, washing up and shopping. DH cooks on weekends and will tend to do the dishes then too but apart from that doesn't do anything else past the occasional bit of gardening and taking the bins out.

We had a chat today about the house being a tip, the majority of it is. DH said he can't do it due to working hours and that I should not be picking and choosing what bits I feel like doing that day but should do a schedule and stick to it as I might find it easier.
I don't think he's wrong but I still feel kind of resentful, he gets to just think about work whilst I feel like I'm juggling.
I've never seen him set the washing machine or clean a toilet, never folded DCs clothes or put them away. If he shops he leaves in the kitchen for me to put away as the cupboards are a mess and he says he never knows where stuff can fit.

He does work extremely hard and in a quite pressured role, mine is much more laid back and PT but then I'm juggling school runs, clubs, housework, laundry, shopping. He really does try to do clubs with eldest whenever he can and any extra curricular activities if possible as he doesn't see them much Mon-Fri.

How can I make this work? Do I need to get my backside in gear and organise everything? Is there anything I could expect him to do or should I just work on how I schedule it in?

All opinions welcome.

Dusty - can I suggest that something that would really help is if - instead of trying to work it out mathematically if you're not into that - you try to do work at the same time? He's basically saying "in the evenings you should work on the house/uniforms/kids/cooking/washing up while I sit around on the sofa and occasionally answer the phone by choice". That must be really annoying? Especially since he then has the gall to ask you to be more organised (in some countries he'd be called disorganised for not ending his day on time).

So how about tonight you say "I've been more organised and I've realised the only way to get everything done is to both work between X and Y times" (when you'd usually be washing up etc, and kids are in bed. "One of us can wash up and clean the kitchen and the other one can sort out the living room/clean the bathroom" or other task of your (OP's) choice. "Which do you want to do?"

Split your leisure time equally and work back from that.

Do you both "work" equal hours every day? (this includes your childcare). If so then chores need to be split in a way that leaves you with the same free time.

Half an hour per day each should crack most of it.

It may work to create an actual rota. Then build up your chores to the same amount hours of work he actually does (including childcare, sorting out presents and time to think about that etc. of course) and then show him the list of jobs left over and ask him how he thinks you should split them up.

Bit of a hijack - but does anyone have any of their cleaning lists they’d be willing to share? Obvs there’s tonnes on the Internet but they never seem to ring true

Hell no

He's taking the piss, even if inadvertently.

You don't have any more spare time than him by the sounds of it.

Ive got a question.

What would he do if you werent around?

What would he do if you split and he had caring responsibilities to your children? How would he keep the house clean and work those hours? Either he needs to pull his finger put and realise you arent a maid or he needs to muck in and do half or he needs to pay for a cleaner. End of. You arent "lucky" anything.

It's hard to advise you because it's not clear what's bugging you, despite your posts :)

You say you are messy- so what exactly does that mean?
Not putting your own clothes away? Not tidying admin or paperwork up? Leaving stuff in the wrong places and everything looking untidy?

Can you be specific?

There's an element here of 'put your own house in order' first before you start on DH.

Maybe you just underestimate what needs to be done to keep a home with 2 adults and 2 kids reasonably tidy and clean.

I am starting to think that if you are at home with your baby for 2 days a week, you ought to be able to spend an hour of those days focusing on whatever needs doing in the house.

That might be cleaning, tidying up, or whatever needs doing.

I also think from how you have described yourself, that you don't have any routine re. the chores.

What exactly do you want your H to do?
Load the washing machine before work? After work? Flick a duster round after dinner? Hoover the house? Mop the floors?

@RealBecca

Ive got a question.

What would he do if you werent around?

What would he do if you split and he had caring responsibilities to your children? How would he keep the house clean and work those hours? Either he needs to pull his finger put and realise you arent a maid or he needs to muck in and do half or he needs to pay for a cleaner. End of. You arent "lucky" anything.

Like a lot of blokes he probably wouldn't do much as they don't see what needs doing!

He'd put the laundry in, shop for food and clean the house twice a year.

Do you both "work" equal hours every day? (this includes your childcare).

I don't think it's fair to say that work outside the home equals child care. No idea what the DH here does, but mine was chairing meetings for £M budgets, risk managing trips to dangerous countries and managing a team of 100+ when our kids were small.

Being at home with a 1 yr old baby does not involve that kind of stress. YES I know what it involves as I had 2 under 3 years old at the same time, but it's different to making life and death decisions at work.

Playing with your baby or reading etc to them, or taking them out, is not the same.

Our home life is very similar to yours, except I chose to work PT/flexibly because I wanted to, and I earn more than my OH on my 3.5 days than he does in 6.

I would rather spend time with my children that clean so we have a cleaner, who does 3hrs a week once a week to blitz through the kitchen, hoovering and bathrooms. That helps enormously and we wouldn’t cope without her. Every thing else we shared out. He does school drop off in the mornings, I pick up from nursery and school in the afternoon. He shops, I mostly cook, we tidy up the kitchen and load the dishwasher together, he does bins and gardening, I wash and dry clothes but we both put them away, we both change beds when needed, have equal share of responsibility for bill paying. Because I’m home more with the kids I probably wipe down the kitchen, Hoover round after meals and do more tidying of toys than him, but I’m ok with that. We share the load.

Tell your DH that I and many other women work full time (45 + hours per week) and find time to clean and cook

I really relate to this OP, I think it’s hard to know what’s ‘fair.’ My DP works 9-5.30pm Monday-Friday in a physical job, I’m a SAHM to 4 year old, 2 year old and 34 weeks pregnant. 4 year old does 2 mornings a week at nursery and due to start school in September.

DP doesn’t do anything household wise in the week, I do everything, shopping, washing up, tidying, washing, making dinner etc. On the weekend he’ll wash up (one of the days) & if there something that needs sorting like washing he’ll do that.

Also mental load - all on me. Meal planning, bills etc… sometimes I wish I could just piss off to work for 9 hours and that be my lot!

Is the issue that the house is a tip OP? That it's all got out of control and that's why it all seems so impossible?
If that's the case , then a systematic declutter / clean and tidy of each room should be your starting point. Then working out between you how to keep on top of it all. There's lots of advice on here (somewhere) about how to tackle a house that's got out of control.

@FoxgloveSummers

Dusty - can I suggest that something that would really help is if - instead of trying to work it out mathematically if you're not into that - you try to do work at the same time? He's basically saying "in the evenings you should work on the house/uniforms/kids/cooking/washing up while I sit around on the sofa and occasionally answer the phone by choice". That must be really annoying? Especially since he then has the gall to ask you to be more organised (in some countries he'd be called disorganised for not ending his day on time).

So how about tonight you say "I've been more organised and I've realised the only way to get everything done is to both work between X and Y times" (when you'd usually be washing up etc, and kids are in bed. "One of us can wash up and clean the kitchen and the other one can sort out the living room/clean the bathroom" or other task of your (OP's) choice. "Which do you want to do?"

Yes, this has occurred to me as well. What’s the current situation in the evenings - do you do bedtime every night, then come downstairs to wash up, tidy etc while your DH is sitting on the sofa dealing with an occasional email? If he’s home by 6, surely he could cook dinner and put the children to bed half the time?

Another thing that strikes me is that you don’t seem to have childcare set up to cover all your working hours as you mention having to work in the evenings to make up hours. Assuming you can’t increase the childcare hours for whatever reason, does your DH facilitate you working in the evenings to catch up, or are you expected to fit that in around all the housework as well?

While you have two days off, that’s not actually free time as you are doing childcare on those two days! Yes, you can get a few things done then (laundry, maybe a bit of hoovering if your child is happy to sit and watch TV for a while without causing chaos), but not much. It’s entirely reasonable to expect your DH to do his half of the day-to-day basics (cooking/ washing up; bedtime) during the week. That’s our set-up - one person cooks and clears up afterwards, including washing up and a quick tidy, while the other does bath and bedtime routine. Then we both have free time after that.

@RealBecca

Ive got a question.

What would he do if you werent around?

What would he do if you split and he had caring responsibilities to your children? How would he keep the house clean and work those hours? Either he needs to pull his finger put and realise you arent a maid or he needs to muck in and do half or he needs to pay for a cleaner. End of. You arent "lucky" anything.

Such a good point.

He'd have loads more to do if he were single.

How is that right?!

Look st the amount if down time each of you has. This should be equal.

So if he works from 8-6 and you are doing your job / house work/child care from 7-9 then this is grossly unfair.

His working hours may be longer but that doesn't mean that his work is harder than your day. I think work is easier than juggling a job and childcare. I have worked full time and part time. Full time is easier!

I mean 8am-6pm and your day is from 7am to 9pm. Why is his paid working day harder than yours juggling your own work/ child care and housework?

A good place to start with what’s a fair split is equal down time.

He says he wants to spend more time with the kids... is there any reason he can't drop down to 4 days and you go up to 4 days? Then it would be much easier to split the housework equally.

Sounds like he is taking the piss. Childcare isn't free time/cleaning time. Yes you might be able to get a few bits done if they're happy playing but surely he would rather you look after/engage with your kids rather than plonk them in front of the TV?!
Sounds like he may have a bit more free time than you if you've got to fit in extra work hours.
He needs to pull his finger out.

He sounds very selfish.
You need to value yourself more.

When you have a busy house, no one gets to sit down till everyone gets to sit down.

Simple rule that really works in happy marriages.

Try it.

Why can't you both work on housework/cleaning on Saturday mornings? That still leaves 3/4 of the weekend free.

It sounds like the issue is that the house has got very messy and that can be overwhelming. A tidy house takes far less time and effort to keep clean than cleaning a messy house. Maybe you should focus on giving the house a major tidy and organisation and then just have a regular clean to keep it up. perhaps you could do this over a couple of weekends as your dh sees fine with taking the kids out. You could put on music and enjoy the time. once its sorted, easier to keep on top of it. around bedtime toys clothes grabbed from all the rooms and put away. Ikea toy bucket type drawers for toys are a godsend. Just chuck it all in there every night. dishes done at night (dishwasher!). A quick pick up of towels in bathroom and wipe of sinks etc. house feels clean. and hoover clean floors once a week (kitchen hoover each night perhaps). folding and putting away laundry in the childs room while chatting to them/watching the play...... once you have system, easier to ask DH to say clean up after dinner while you get the dc ready for bed or you clean up while he gets them ready for bed... and primary school child can help clear up after dinner. and help pick up toys and clothes every night....

these were the best thing I every bought. chuck it all in the buckets and regularly (once every year tbh) you can organise it by toy type.
www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/trofast-storage-combination-with-boxes-white-s29042877/. Everything off the floor in five minutes.

Regardless of the ins and outs of things, I'd say a generic split would be you do what you can manage during the hours he works (don't run yourself ragged but do what you can manage [bearing in mind you also have a toddler with you]), and then weekends you both do an equal amount of chores.