To think extending the school day is a terrible idea

[footballdisharmony]

Apparently Boris thinks that extending the school day is the 'right thing to do' (as reported in the Guardian today) I think this is an awful idea. I'm interested what others think?

I think keeping them at school longer is a mistake and is unlikely to be properly resourced to really make positive impact. Why not just invest in more more teachers/TAs/targeted help. A longer day just eats further into time with friends and family, and time to do other extra curricula activities that children actually really want to do and get a lot from. My primary DC already have homework, spellings, times tables and reading to do after school - surely they need a bit of time to just relax and play!

I agree. From what I can gather the last part of the day is fairly useless as it is, many children are already too tired. Making the day longer won't make any difference to productivity, just means tired children in school for longer.

I could possibly get on board with slightly longer- half an hour maybe- in exchange for no homework.

@Rosesareyellow

Sounds like a lot of people are keen on the extra hour of childcare.

The point of extending the school day is to allow ‘catch up’ of missed learning. Reading a story for an hour as some have suggested isn’t really going to cut it - and if you think it will then why not do some extra story time at home instead?

Your first sentence reads that its people who require childcare that are keen for it.

And your next sentence then says why not spend an extra yourself doing reading with them.

Would love to, but they are in childcare!! Not at home.
So yes, I'm one who is keen for it, not because I'd save on the childcare but because it means there is a chance my dc can catch up during that hour I am unable to help them with because of being at work.

Its only those who have the benefit of a stay at home parent, or parent whose job finishes before school ends that can spend that time helping their dc catch up. So its there to ensure ALL children benefit on being able to catch up.

And to be honest, the UK has a ridiculously short school day compared to most other European countries.

I do think secondary should be longer.

TAs would be glad of the extra hours. You can't make a living as a TA because it's so part time. There's no way on earth a teacher's day is about to be extended. It just isn't.

Not all TAs will be glad of the hours. I definitely wouldn't want longer hours; a lot of the extra stuff I do (for free in my own time) would go out of the window if I was forced to extend my hours. The children would lose out on those extras.

Several of our TAs have moved into being a TA in order to regain a better work life balance and would not relish additional hours. The extra pay wouldn't be worth it for many.

Yanbu. I actually want to see my kids.
I went to a pretty full on private school with long days and it was miserable.

I was a primary school child in the 70s and an 8.45am to 4pm or 4.15pm day was standard.

I went to school in the 70s and 80s and my school day was 8:45am (at secondary it was 8;55) to 3:30 (3;40 for secondary.) I had an hour for lunch at least.

Dd finished school last year and her school day was 8:30am - 3:30pm, with about 40 minutes lunch at secondary, so very little difference. Infact her junior school was longer hours as it was to 3:45pm

My infant school is 8:40am to 3:20pm, so again not much different to my school days.

None of our local schools finished as late as 4pm growing up.

My own primary school days were 8 (or 8:30, genuinely can't remember) to 4:30 then 5pm.

It was absolutely fine.

Private school: 8 to 5

Again this is not the case for many private schools, either now or in the last.

DD's private schools were 8:30 - 3:30 (infants) 8:30 - 3:45pm and 8:40 - 3:30pm (secondary) There was optional free childcare at primary until 4pm and you could drop them off from 8:15am (for free) in infants/juniors if need be - a teacher supervised the, playing in the yard. Outside of that was paid for childcare or paid for clubs/activities.

By the end of the school day at 3.45 in my school, the kids are tired. They want a snack and a drink and some time to chill out. Sticking another lesson on the end of the day would not work well. The best learning happens in the morning. We have tutoring before and after school in groups of three or four. Many children who were offered this declined it. Some took it up mainly the ones with working parents. Many of the most disadvantaged and in need of tutoring did not. The kids simply didn't want to do more lessons. If the government really wanted to help kids who have fallen behind, they would fund more TAs and teachers in schools. They would also fund some genuinely engaging sports and arts provision for young people. This would also help these providers who have been damaged financially by the pandemic. Telling schools to add on half an hour is the laziest, most ridiculous option hence BJ has gone for this.

I've put YANBU, but actually I would happily have my Y3 child do a longer day if it meant more playtime. To cram in what they have to learn they've cut their playtime to the minimum.

I went to private school for a while 8.30-5.30 BUT we did 8 hours or more of sport every week, and frequent, lengthy art and music lessons, plus languages from a young age and discussions on things like current affairs, culture and politics.

@quizqueen

Extending the day till 4 pm would be reasonable, even if the teachers just read a story to them and then discussed it. That would be a relaxing end to the school day.

Hahahahahaha

It's interesting to see what different people think about this. I'd love to know what teachers/headteachers and TAs think about it. And if they think extending the school day is a good way of catching children up.

I am a teacher.

I was in primary in the early 70s. 8.50 start, 3 end. Hour for lunch and a nap time in the afternoon. Plus play in the afternoon. Summer babies didn't even start till April.

Ff to now. 8.40 start. Most are in breakfast club from 7.45. We have a 15 min break, 40 min lunch. Lesson till 3.15, no pm break, most stay after school at club till 5.

I do afterschool lessons as demanded by the catchup but they are worth fuck all because the kids are sodding exhausted.

The school day should be about 08:45 to 16:00 for pupils over 11.

I find it absurd that pupils of 14-16 are coming home from 13:30 onwards every day.

@Daphnise

Where are you that 14 - 16 yr olds are coming home from "13:30 onwards" every day

@bookworm20

And to be honest, the UK has a ridiculously short school day compared to most other European countries.

Are you prepared to swap the shorter day for the longer holidays that other European countries have?
Also generally the school day in Europe is 08:30 till between 15:00 and 16:00 so not that different.

As they have put no money into schools through the whole pandemic .

He also isn't exactly the person i would look to for looking out for children.

My ds's adhd meds would wear off by then. He will learn nothing neither would his class

There is a huge difference between primary children age 6 or 7 and a 13/14 year old in terms of what they can cope with at school.

DSS went to a state comp and it was dire barely any homework in his GCSE years (the final year of which was cut short by covid). He finished at 2:50. You certainly have to be very self motivated to do anything other than gaming if the school you are at doesn't set you homework

Dh emailed/called the school numerous times about the lack of work they never replied or got back to him.

We tried to set DSS work but it was really hard virtually impossible to motivate him.

He used to come home and go on his sodding X box with all his school friends.

The sport offering was awful

Lots of teenagers need to be made to do something other than gaming./social media. Keep them at school and make them do sport or obligatory homework but they can cope with a later finish than 2:50

Oh and he would finish at 1:30 on a Friday!

I teach. I arrive in work every day at 7.30 to get myself ready for the day - setting up IT, answering emails, marking etc. I have one 15 minute break and one 35 minute lunch break - but most days I get neither because I am dealing with issues that have come up and need urgent attention. I have break duty twice per week and I teach A level two of those lunch sessions because it would not fit on the timetable.

We finish at 3.15 because our lunch break was shortened last year due to behaviour issues. The lunch time cover staff could no longer deal with behaviour so it was cut shorter and staggered so that KS3 and KS4 have different lunch times.

I rarely leave work before 5. On two afternoons I have after school meetings that last until 4.45. I have six parents evenings a year that run from 6.30 till 8.30 pm. I also have similar meetings for g and t awards evening, prom and a 4 hour evening session for Year 6 welcome sessions.

I don't have the time or energy to do any extra time in school.

Haven't read all responses so I may be repeating what others are saying, but surely the only change that will result in extra learning is smaller class sizes and therefore more teachers.
A longer day with 29+ kids in each class is pointless.

@onlyhereforthecake

My own primary school days were 8 (or 8:30, genuinely can't remember) to 4:30 then 5pm.

It was absolutely fine.

8-4.30/5?!

I don’t know of any primary schools ever having had those hours! 8-4.30/5?!

Was that a state UK school?

My own primary was 8.50-3.20 and secondary was 8.40-3.30 but with an hour for lunch and 20 minute breaks.

My teen DC do 8.30-3.30 now and my primary is 8.45-3.15/3.30 depending on key stage. That is more than enough; the thought of having another lesson then would finish them off, I think.

The thought of having to plan a teach another lesson would finish me off as well. I already work 7.30-5.30/6. Whipping up a music/PE/art lesson for thirty five year olds at 3pm would be no mean feat either!

I don’t know of any primary schools ever having had those hours! 8-4.30/5?!

yes, private.

Still a shorter day than my own kids having clubs after school, they are never home that early.

Or on the one day they are, they go to a later club and don't finish until 7:30, which is much more inconvenient. I prefer clubs straight after school!