Warning for looking after my child

[WaxMeltAddict]

I've tried looking online to see my rights. Basically I started a new job in May and my youngest DD's childminder has been brilliant with working around my hours to look after DD so I can work.
I'm a single mum and Wednesdays are a hit difficult and I can't start until 12 (usually start at 10.30am)
My manager is lovely and understanding but I have been threatened by the big manager about a warning due to this.
Can they give a warning because I have find childcare for 2 hours sometimes?
I'm a hard worker, I'm always on time otherwise. I just want to know where I stand

If they want you to work specific hours then they should give you a proper contract.

Zero hours contract - decline whatever shifts dont work for you. I'd be saying to them that I would agree to any shifts with 7 days notice (or whatever works for you), and would likely have to decline any last minute adjustments due to childcare.

Or suggest they offer you a contract with set hours and you will sort childcare to match

It’s an absolute joke that you are on a zero hour contract for a vital and regular service such as dinner lady (/person).

As per the Gov.uk website:

“Appropriate use
Zero hours contracts are useful where work demands are irregular or where there is not a constant demand for staff. Zero hours contracts can also provide a level of flexibility for the individual, which allows them to work around other commitments such as study or childcare.”

And :

“Inappropriate use
Zero hours contracts allow flexibility for both employers and individuals. However, they should not be considered as an alternative to proper business planning and should not be used as a permanent arrangement if it is not justifiable.

Zero hours contracts might not be appropriate if the job offered will mean the individual will work regular hours over a continuous period of time.”

Please remember - you have minimum employment rights, no guarantee of work, they can drop you at a moments notice, you are unlikely to receive the same perks and benefits of a perm/temp employee.

One of the very few benefits of being on a zero hour contract is the supposed two way flexibility to suit both needs see above re childcare.

There is supposed to be more guidance from the government this year in relation to employers giving more notice to change of hours to employees etc I believe.

I don’t want to give HR advice re this as I’m not qualified but please seek advice from ACAS or CAB and send a very strongly worded email to this boss and their senior do there is a paper trail reminding them of the zero contract arrangement.

If they want more regularity and flexibility from you then they should do the right thing and change your contract to a more suitable one which gives you the added benefits and employment rights that everyone in this country should expect at the least!

Zero hour contracts may have a small place in society I believe - but for the provision of food to school kids??? Absolute joke! I’m angry on your behalf OP!

@pinchmybun thank you for that info.

It is not acceptable for a job to provide zero benefits and expect perfect employee flexibility and attendance. They choose not to provide any stability or sick leave. They are lucky anyone would take the job at all.

I managed to find someone at short notice today thankfully so I went in on time.
I do everything I can to get into work as I said before I love my job.
My manager knows how much I want to be there, I went in and worked the day after having both my wisdom teeth removed at the hospital aswell

@Tossblanket

If you're making up the hours elsewhere it shouldn't be a problem.

If you're just expecting gratis time off because of having kids then you're being massively unreasonable.

I'm not. I'd rather be in work doing something than sitting at home.

@WaxMeltAddict

I managed to find someone at short notice today thankfully so I went in on time. I do everything I can to get into work as I said before I love my job. My manager knows how much I want to be there, I went in and worked the day after having both my wisdom teeth removed at the hospital aswell

went in and worked the day after having both my wisdom teeth removed at the hospital aswell

Irrelevant if you don’t actually show up at the time you’re scheduled for; you’re unreliable.

Not only that but if you’re scheduled to work the day after dental work and hadn’t booked it off, why are you expecting that to be something you’re praised for? Again, it’s expected you’re then when you’re scheduled.

The reasons and excuses are irrelevant. And you still haven’t answered - if you were expected at 10.30, what time did you tell them you wouldn’t be rocking up until 12?

@bigbaggyeyes

I agree with a pp.

You've not received a warning for looking after your child. You've received a warning for being 2 hrs late on a number of occasions.

As I mentioned before. Today would have only been the second time. Thankfully I managed to sort it last minute so I could go in on time. This isn't a recurring thing at all. I'd understand if I was taking the piss but I promise you I'm not

WaxMeltAddict
Don’t listen to all the negative comments, they are the ones who probably are working comfortably from home, not wanting to go back into the office as it allows them to save money on childcare or they are there when their children are ill and sent home from school. As I said before not everyone has this luxury. I hope it works out ok for you.

Why is it just Wednesdays? Does your childminder not work Wednesday mornings?

As it’s only on Wednesdays I would actually find alternative childcare and use it every week and not have the childminder on that day. Does your DCs school have a morning club?

@toocold54

Why is it just Wednesdays? Does your childminder not work Wednesday mornings?

As it’s only on Wednesdays I would actually find alternative childcare and use it every week and not have the childminder on that day. Does your DCs school have a morning club?

Other two DC are in school so they're no affected. CM has a child until 12 which makes her numbers reach the limit, if she took my DD in too then she would be over the limit of the amount of children she's allowed to have.

Other two DC are in school so they're no affected. CM has a child until 12 which makes her numbers reach the limit, if she took my DD in too then she would be over the limit of the amount of children she's allowed to have.

That is such a pain!
Zero hour contracts are so difficult when you are a parent. Are you not able to tell them you can’t do Wednesday mornings? Or do you have to do them?

It’s an hour and a half, for a few more weeks, surely they could help you for that time?..it’s not like you’ve lied and are getting your nails done. A single mum with 3 kids and trying to work and make it all fit so you can pay the bills yet people are still nasty. I totally get, you need to be there when the job starts. I’m a nurse, single parent to 4 only gave childcare 2/3 days a week and not even the same days. I can only work part time and thankfully my boss is amazing and makes sure I can work.

Speak to work again op, explain and ask what you can do/work other days work later etc until September and then childcare will be sorted. Then work your ass off and prove what a good employee you are. I’m not sure how op is supposed to magic childcare from nowhere, nursery needs settling in and is a bit of a faff for a few weeks. There is no formal childcare that exist when I’m at work I leave @ 6am home at 9pm so I couldn’t work on my ex days in work anyway, he works shifts too.

I really hope you can make it work, op

I’d try and get a job in the public sector. Where I work the parents are all being allowed to work PT on FT pay due to childcare issues. No idea if there are any vacancies, but there’s lots of work not being done…

A zero hours contract usually means there's no obligation on the employer to provide work, and no obligation on the employee to accept work offered.

If this is the type of contract you have OP, don't accept work for times you don't have childcare. There's no point accepting work on days when you will be extremely late.

@AudacityBaby

I’d try and get a job in the public sector. Where I work the parents are all being allowed to work PT on FT pay due to childcare issues. No idea if there are any vacancies, but there’s lots of work not being done…

That sounds unusual. It’s not that they are working more flexibly?

www.peoplemanagement.co.uk/news/articles/nurse-sacked-for-not-agreeing-to-work-weekends-wins-tribunal-appeal

Curiously this wasn't greatly discussed here - certainly not in the more feminist oriented boards.

That judgment is fascinating @ProfessorSlocombe (I’m a lawyer but not in this field). I found it particularly interesting that the fact that the claimant’s husband was available at weekends to care for the children when she was asked to work did not matter- “it does not need to be impossible for an employee to comply with a requirement before there is a disadvantage”. It says that having to make alternative arrangements would be enough.

That’s interesting though, because if both parents were normally at home at the weekend, exactly how much of an alternative arrangement is it for the man to be occasionally left in sole charge? (In that case the employer promised to give several weeks’ notice and only require one weekend to be worked a month, so it wasn’t that the Dad would have sole charge every weekend).

I also found it odd that the judgment suggested that it is a fact that women with childcare responsibilities would find it more difficult to work nights - surely not if you have two parents at home and the kids go to school in the daytime?

Anyway, it’s both good and bad that the upshot is that Tribunals are expected to take it as read that women are disadvantaged by disproportionate childcare responsibilities, because this is undoubtedly true in society. However it’s sad that it is true and men are by default assumed not to be equally capable of/responsible for children out of working hours.

None of this is relevant to the OP though, because she is a single Mum. It was I te resting though that the analysis concluded that the burden of childcare fell disproportionately on women as a group, BECAUSE more single parents are female. To me single parents should be a separate protected group.

A zero hours contract doesnt mean you keep yourself free to take work on notice from them. Basically you should be giving them as much notice if you can't work as they give you if you aren't needed.
Normally I would say you are totally taking the piss but I feel employers massively abuse zero hours contracts to shit on people.

Also this is a classic example of where a zero hours contract is the employer taking the piss.

Its school lunches. There's no variation in how much work there is or when it is, they clearly need a fixed staff for term time set hours, so they are using zero hours to limit their obligations to you.

YABU if you're just turning up late every Wednesday.

Unfortunately this is why many people delay having children until they've met their organisations employment time to apply for flexible working arrangement.

If you're not eligible to apply for flexible working and there is no way they can adjust your role to accommodate your child care arrangements then you either need to change your childcare or your job so that it works.

I came on to say yabu, but now I can see you are on a 0 hours contract then I would say you aren't. The flexibility has to work both ways, you haven't committed to working set hours, because of their choice of contract. Surely they can't take disciplinary action for you not working when you aren't contracted to work at that time?

If you are on a zero hours contract then you are under no legal obligation to accept any shifts. I understand that, of course, you will probably want to accept any shifts that they do offer you because you want to keep the job.

What has happened on the two Wednesdays that you haven’t been able to start until midday? Have you accepted the shift (starting at 10.30am) and then later said that actually you can’t find childcare and so won’t be able to be in until midday, or have you said you can only work from midday from the start but will try to find to find childcare to start earlier (and then haven’t been successful at that on two occasions)? Legally, the two will look different even though the outcome is the same.

Also, if you haven’t accepted the shifts as starting from 10.30am then they cannot take disciplinary action against you.

But as you can be fired for any reason (other than a protected characteristic) in the first two years of your employment that doesn’t really matter… and with a zero hours contract they don’t even have to sack you. They can just stop offering you shifts.

Zero hours contracts are supposed to offer flexibility each way for exactly this kind of reason! But as you are finding out, generally the power lies entirely with the employer…

YABVU op

@Starryskiesinthesky No - they’re being granted up to 50% flexi credits each week to bring them back up to 37 hours. There’s been a big headache about it as the union lobbied for it and it’s really upset their non-parent members.