Is what I said really out of order?

[sparklingwater1]

Hi all looking for some advice if I’ve acted out of line here. Happy to be told I am and apologise to the parties involved or stand my ground if necessary. Will give all background I think is relevant and happy to give more if asked. Long one…

So me and exDH split up 6 years ago when I was pregnant with DS2. My mum and Dad have been a rock for me and have helped me out with the kids loads. I have 2 children aged 8 and 5. ExDH is a bit Disney dad, sees the kids once every 2 weeks and they have fun. My mum and dad take the kids overnight once a week. My mum also watches the children while I’m at work, I pay her for it, similar to that of a childminder so not a small amount.

I was in a long term relationship for the past 4 years and split up 5 months ago…very amicable split no issues at all. Since the split my mum has been round my house lots she gives the place a quick clean, puts a wash on and potters around the garden all while I’m at work. She says it’s to “earn her keep” as the children are in school 9-3 referring to the money I’m paying to her.

Lately though it’s getting a bit much, she’s rearranging my cupboards, I put a dress that I had lost buttons on in the bin and I found it washed and hung up (she seen it in a bag of rubbish and thought it was a mistake it was there 🤷🏻‍♀️)all while I’m at work. If I open a bottle of wine she’ll make comments like “oh have a drink last night did we?” etc.

Dad as well has been round in the shed, in the loft “checking things out” all while I’m at work.

I came down the other morning with the kids (summer holidays here) and she’s out the back painting the fence because “she had left over paint to use.” Absolutely fine by me but again I just wished she had asked because I don’t actually like the colour but she had started at 6:30am when we were all still in bed.

She popped in and I made her toast and tea and was tidying up putting paperwork away and yes the cupboard I keep all that in is the cupboard all the “stuff” goes in. She said “we will get a day and go through that” and then she’s telling me all the stuff she wants to do to my garden and dad is coming “to take my shed down” apparently…it’s old yes but it does a job and I can’t afford a new one. When I said it’s fine just to leave it, she said “no you don’t need to be here we’ll just suit ourselves” I told her I didn’t want her or my dad here when I wasn’t, they wouldn’t do it to my brothers house and I certainly wouldn’t do it to theirs so why should they have free reign at my place? Well that’s it…I’m stubborn, ungrateful and expect people to do things for me etc.

I’ve said that I don’t think there’s anything unreasonable in saying please don’t come round my house/ garden etc when I’m not here. Apparently I’m accusing them of spying on me. I don’t always say “thank you mum” every single day if she’s put a wash on for me but I take her out at least once a month for afternoon tea or for a lunch etc and I always make a point of saying it’s a thanks for what she does to help me. Bearing in mind she tells me she does this because of the money I pay her, I’ve never asked or expected her to do anything and I know she’s helping and do appreciate it.

So today has ended up in a massive row and I don’t know if I am being unreasonable in saying what I said or if I’m quite right and they’re being overbearing. I have apologised to her as she got upset and I never intended to upset her but I’ve said that I don’t think there’s anything wrong in what I said?!

Happy for different perspectives, all I can see is my own point of view. Thank you in advance.

Thanks all!

I'll let today blow over and I'll ask her round tomorrow when the kids are away and we can sort out a routine from here that's healthier for us all. I have a brilliant relationship with them and they are the most amazing and kind grandparents to my DC also. I just want my space.

@sparklingwater1

Thanks all!

I'll let today blow over and I'll ask her round tomorrow when the kids are away and we can sort out a routine from here that's healthier for us all. I have a brilliant relationship with them and they are the most amazing and kind grandparents to my DC also. I just want my space.

and this is exactly right.....your home your rules

My mum does this kind of thing a lot. As she loves 250 miles away, it happens less frequently (!) but it still happens, and I know that it would happen a lot more if I lived closer.

There was the day that she threw three of DH’s work shirts in the bin as they weren’t of an acceptable standard (to her) for a man in his position. She was probably right, but that’s not the point, they were not hers to throw away.

There was also the time that she and and my dad thought it would be helpful to move a chest of drawers for me. I had been planning on moving them, but it was a two man job and DH was away. I had t asked them to move it. So they moved it, emptied out the contents, which included some very personal items that they saw. Which I hadn’t hidden (they were under some clothes in one of the drawers). We don’t have that kind of open relationship and I was mortified.

Then there was the time that she did the washing and shrunk a cashmere sweater of mine so that it was dolls clothes size.I wasn’t happy, she thrust £100 at me for a replacement, in tears telling me that it was an accident and accidents happen and that she was only trying to help etc etc.

I don’t ask for them help and would rather they didn’t! But they are so generous with their time and spirit, and it is always, always me who comes off badly. Despite me being at pains to say that I appreciate what they do but please would they not. It’s so hard.

@ARoseDowntown

As I've said I've never once asked my mum to do those things. The pay I give her is for child care and if for example my DS got sent home she is a 5 minute walk from the school and it's much easier for her to get them than it is for me to try to get away from work and a 30 minute drive away. Obviously in an emergency I would leave. So it's like with a childminder you still pay for the time they're in school for that situation. At least that's how child minders I've spoken to work.

Since the DC have went back to school full time and my split she drops the children off (I leave for my job about 7:45 in the morning) and then she's starting coming back to house and doing stuff and when I've said she doesn't need to she's said it's for "earning her keep" as I said in my OP. This is all very recent over the past few months, I have never asked her for this. Pottering around in the garden I can tolerate, but being in the house and making plans and going through my things I think is too far and when I've mentioned it I'm made to feel like the bad one cause she's "helping" 🤷🏻‍♀️

@WellTidy this is it exactly!!! Thank you for understanding!

I think you and your parents' daily lives are intertwined in a way that is not very usual these days, so I can see how the lines have become blurred. Your mum is over stepping the mark, but I can see why she has become like that, it sounds like you all have a very co-dependant relationship and perhaps the situation as it is has made your parents feel like they need (or you want them) to be actively parenting you and your children.

I would in your position apologise and try and smooth things over. You have no idea how lucky you are to have them so actively involved.

@Jasmine11

100% I see my family all the time. Aunts/ uncles/ cousins not just my mum and dad. We are all very close. Because I've always grown up with that I've known it as the norm but I know that isn't the case for everyone and I am so lucky and grateful for that.

I work with someone who has no contact with her family and I know the reasons why and yes she's so much better off but I can't ever imagine a situation in my family like that. When I speak to ExDP just general friendly chat or if post comes for him he'll ask how "aunty" or "uncle" so and so is because we are such a tight knit bunch. I just feel like you say the lines have been blurred over the past few months and I just need my house back to being my space like it always has been until now.

If you’re paying her for childcare, why are you allowing her to do other stuff, even in the garden?

If you drop the kids at her place at 7.45am, and she has them at school on time, then does pick up in the afternoon, that’s basically 2-3 hours per day. £30/40/50 per day? Does she think she needs to go to your house to do laundry and washing up and tidying and cleaning every day to earn that? That’s nonsense. The pay issue is a red herring. She either thinks you’re not keeping house properly and need her to do it (wrong on so many levels), or she’s encroaching deliberately.

Why doesn’t she take your kids back to her house after school? Why is she in your home at all if she lives 5 mins from home?

My MIL tried a few things like that. Lots of boundary pushing, then her being gas-lighting and manipulative, and "if you don't want my help/I can't do/say anything, can I...."

I had to be very direct and straight with her, and explain that her help was much appreciated, but she has to remember this is my/her son's house, not hers, and there is no way she'd want that level of interference, either.

It sounds like you just sort if blurted it out? Your not out of order to want boundaries though.

I am with you, but I think your mistake was to tell them not to go there when you're not in.
You could have told them clearly and assertively that it is your house and that they are not to do anything to it without checking with you.

Apparently I’m accusing them of spying on me.
Because they know they are? It's an odd thing to say unless they really are checking up on you.

I absolutely do get it! I am from a tight family too, and this type of thing is standard within my family (but you’re right, it wouldn’t be towards sons, it would only be towards daughters). Everyone goes out of their way to help each other, and this is my parents’ way. I know that if I was to say that I wished they’d not do things like this to any of my other family members, they would roll their eyes and sympathise but nobody would ever expect things to change. And I would be painted as the bad guy.

Reading your follow up posts: don’t answer unless you want to, but does your mum NEED the money you give her? For such a tight knit family, doesn’t being paid to look after grandchildren change the dynamic of the relationship? You’ve placed your mum, and she’s accepted to be on the same level as a paid childminder, someone who could be a stranger and could be hired/fired, not an irreplaceable grandmother.

Appreciate I may be an anomaly here. I’ve never understood charging 16+ children at home for housing or food, or paying my parents to look after my kids while I work, but appreciate I’m well off enough not to need to do this.

If you’re happy to pay her the same amount as you’d pay a childminder, I’d be inclined to just get a childminder. She’s clearly trying to help but it’s all a bit much, you’re a grown woman not a baby. They both sound a bit bored and perhaps have empty nest syndrome. I don’t think your situation is healthy personally, your parents are way too involved.

Good luck, OP. You sound entirely reasonable. They want to help you and their DGCh, but are overstepping the boundaries. I'm sure you can sort this, with tact.

I can see how it's annoying and you need your space but id love a mum like that that actually gave a shit about me

My mum has cut me out the family and is a toxic narcissist who wouldn't spit on me if I was on fire. Your mum sounds like she's trying to take care of you, albeit you probably don't need it. Maybe set some boundaries (or send her my way)

@Youdiditanyway

If you’re happy to pay her the same amount as you’d pay a childminder, I’d be inclined to just get a childminder. She’s clearly trying to help but it’s all a bit much, you’re a grown woman not a baby. They both sound a bit bored and perhaps have empty nest syndrome. I don’t think your situation is healthy personally, your parents are way too involved.

Yup!

Or instead of "earning her keep"-my doesn't GM just take less money now the kid are both at school?

Ok to clarify a few things...

1. I have paid my mum the equivalent of a childminder since DS1 was born. She was desperate to watch him but was working full time. Exh and I agreed that if we paid her she would watch DS1 at the time and he would get to spend quality time with his Gran.

1. This arrangement continued to work when I split from ExH and when I had DS2.

1. I pay solely out my own wages ExH doesn't contribute anymore.

1. In 8 years of childcare this situation has NEVER happened. They've always been very good with space and boundaries especially when now ExDP is here.

This situation has literally only been the past few months. When ExDP was here I would drop them to my mums now he's not mum comes here cause it's easier for all of us to be honest. I get them ready and their breakfast etc and with the school staggered start times she would leave here 45 minutes after me for DS1 starting at 8:30 and then DS2 starting at 8:45.

The boys asked if they could come back home after school because their friends are here, their toys, games etc so that's why it's the routine that she comes here before and after school. I am TOTALLY ok with that. No issues and the boys are happy.

My issues is coming to the house when I'm at work recently and waking up to my fence being painting and finding out plans to get rid of my shed all of which have only happened over the past few months. The conversation I had today was had she told me the plans for the shed and I said no and she said "you don't need to be here, we'll suit ourselves"

The house is clean and tidy, yea my washing basket has things in it each day but I would always put one on after work. I would wash the breakfast dishes and put them away when I got home. It started with those things and has just built to cupboards being rearranged and the garden etc and I just feel it's all a bit much in such a short space of time that's all.

It looks as if wanting to help has turned into a full time job for her. I can see she means well, she probably doesn't want you to have to worry about things but she's overstepping the mark and can't see it.

My Mum and dad have always been helpful types but always ask first before doing anything. Although they have a key and can come around when nobody is home. Sometimes Dad cuts the lawn or does some pruning etc. There is a balance.

OP, I had a very similar situation with my own DM. She did quite a lot of childcare of us (roughly 15/20 hours a week) and we paid her for it an childminder-type rates. She always looked after DC in our home at her request. She absolutely loved it and it definitely wasn't a case of us taking advantage of her or expecting her to help.

As the years went by, the boundaries got more and more blurred in very much the way you describe. It was like she had two houses, and I didn't even have one. The invasion of privacy and the constant need to be grateful for things I didn't even want doing was very draining, and it got to the point that I didn't feel comfortable in my own home. I tried pushing back gently but it fell on deaf ears or led to her having hurt feelings.

In the end I hated the whole set up and wished we had never gone down the route of having her so involved. It was resolved when we had to temporarily move away, and then when we moved back to the area we put a bit of physical distance between us and reset the relationship. It has permanently damaged our relationship sadly. I'm certain she feels that I am heartless and ungrateful, whereas I am frustrated that she could never see how inappropriate some of her boundary crossing was.

Sorry OP, my sypathies!

I pay my mum as I've said in most recent post she was desperate to look after DS1 and it was agreed and I wanted her to then DS2 came along and she is in her element with them. She took them to baby clubs and they have a brilliant bond. Again I was incredibly and still am over the moon that she watches them and does so much with them I know how lucky I am to have a mum like this, I do not take her for granted in anyway.

To reduce money would ultimately affect her and my dads standard of living and I don't want to do that.

I hope others will be along to confirm this but surely you don't pay childminders while the children are at school?! [confusesd].

I think you may have got your wires crossed somewhere. Surely you pay for the hour or so before school and from 3pm to 5pm or whatever it is you need her for afterwards? You don't pay her for the inbetween bit! That is crazy.

If I am right then your mum may feel better because you can stop paying her for doing nothing!

I see why this would frustrate most people, for me I wouldn't mind it with my mum but I get it would become a bit like your still living with your parents if they are treating your home like its theirs

@WhoDidAndWhy

It would do my head in too. Lovely that they’ve always helped you but sometimes “helping” is to actually let you adult for yourself - make your own decisions about your shed/garden/fence whatever. They mean well but they’ve gradually overstepped the boundaries over time and probably without realising it. Although you’re 100% right, you probably needed to bring it up very gently.

I agree with this. Because of your situation they have gradually taken over more and more without realising. I would chat to them gently and let them know what the boundaries are.

@Chamomileteaplease

When I looked when DS1 was born they said it was ongoing to be "on call"' for the child when at school/ nursery as if they had to pick him up then that could affect their chances of having another child in their care at that point therefore losing pay. I spoke to a few at the time then it became the option to have my mum and I would rather the boys spent time with gran.