To think prejudice against low intelligence is a big problem.

[Bluebirdsflyover]

I just read a thread on here about the tour de France crash and that woman who caused it.

Now, the woman was culpable for sure, regardless of what you think is a proportionate punishment.
But some of the comments (in fact the vast majority of the comments) were along the lines of:

“She deserves what’s coming to her, stupid woman”

“Nobody is THAT thick”

“I’m glad she will be made an example of, bloody idiot”

And so on.

Like it never crossed anybody’s MIND that some people are actually not as quick witted as others? Some people just aren’t that bright. That they don’t deserve to be punished for that?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making any assumptions about the woman’s cognitive ability, hell we ALL make mistakes, even those who have been to flipping Harvard, and often big ones. Mostly we are lucky and they are not broadcast to the whole world.

If was the way people on that post used perceived intelligence (or lack thereof) as a justification for vindictive retribution that really bothered me.

Cruel people and actions - punish them.
Malicious people and actions- punish them.
Spiteful, sadistic, abusive, coercive, etc etc - punish them all!
‘Stupidness’ (for lack of a better word... it’s quite telling we haven’t really got a world for low intelligence or poor judgement that isn’t derogatory)... should it be punished?
I don’t think so.

Our absolute distain for people who are deemed to act in a ‘stupid’ way is testament, I think, to deeply prejudicial attitudes about intelligence.

She managed to get herself to the right location, so I think we can rule out major intellectual impairment. Then she stood in front of hundreds of cyclists.

Frankly manuscripts, engravings, scrolls and graffiti suggest we've been calling each other thick, stupid, dim-witted, dull of mind and lacking of brain for thousands of years, we can handle a few more.

The law covers this pretty well, really; and in the UK judges sum it up to juries - intent, premeditation, mens rea, negligence, foreseeable outcomes, etc.

Her actions were not at all likely to have been in the area of limited capacity, tbh.

If a person of limited capacity had strayed out into the road, they'd have been (a) probably dragged back in time, and (b) not blamed like this.

But this was calculated by her to take place at the last second.

Agree completely OP. Insecurity on the part of the commenter in bucketloads.

@AutumnCrow intent, premeditation (Americanism), mens rea, negligence, and foreseeable outcomes are all entirely different things.

People often substitute the word "thick" for "gross selfishness". We all know one of these people, she probably has form for this sort of wilfully oblivious selfish behaviour and isn't used to anyone saying no or experiencing any consequences. She's just selfish and arrogant, that's it, no mystery.

She did something incredibly stupid.

It doesn't necessarily mean she is stupid. We can all mess up.

She, however, messed up pretty spectacularly and publicly, and so it's pretty inevitable that she is going to get called out on it.

This isn't a 'don't call people out for doing stupid things' problem. This is a 'one upon a time the stupid stuff that people did would be a funny tale down the local pub, now it's on YouTube and watched by millions' problem.

Do you mean “stupidity”, which is already a word?

Stupid literally means 'having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense'

She showed a great lack of common sense.

And when you say its shouldn't be punished, where do you draw the line?

People die through poor lack of judgment. And if you have such a poor sense of judgement you are a danger to others, what happens then?

If someone you love is killed by a speeding driver, because they judged the road safe to drive the speed they were driving at, would you be OK with 'oh bless them, they lack the capacity to make a good judgment'

Would you be happier if they called her selfish? Arrogant?

She can't be that dumb....she apparently fled the scene and hasn't been found. The organisers want to sue her.

‘Stupidness’ (for lack of a better word... it’s quite telling we haven’t really got a world for low intelligence or poor judgement that isn’t derogatory

Stupidity 🤷🏻‍♀️

[quote Jayceewhy]@AutumnCrow intent, premeditation (Americanism), mens rea, negligence, and foreseeable outcomes are all entirely different things.[/quote]
Which is why a judge sums them up in the context of each particular case.

Tbf OP when we call someone 'stupid' we actually mean 'person of normal mental capacity who has acted in a way that said normal mental capacity should have prevented.'

We don't react in the same way to someone who could not be expected to act with a customary level of good sense.

There are so many stupid people in the world
What are you going to do.

People who have low IQs are needed as much as the people who have high IQs, if they weren’t natural selection would have done it’s thing thousands of years ago.

Moving away from the bike incident, what I mean is:

How would you like to be a person who finds learning difficult in our society? Who struggles to reason as quickly as most other people? Who means well but makes “stupid” mistakes quite a lot of the time. Is ours a compassionate society that recognises that different people have different decision making ability and give the benefit of the doubt when clearly no ill will was intended??

Or is this a society that will villify people and punish on the basis of “being stupid” and causing problems for the rest of us?

I don’t think anyone judges people who are cognitively impaired or have learning disabilities or differences. As regards general ‘stupidity’, I actually find the opposite — that people on Mn are keen to defend, identify with or be amused by the ill-informed, intellectually incurious or dopey. In fact they are more negative about certain types of intelligence.

Is ours a compassionate society that recognises that different people have different decision making ability and give the benefit of the doubt when clearly no ill will was intended??

I think when that's genuinely the case, that people do feel sympathy. But in cases like this, where there's no evidence that this woman was anything but normal, and therefore should have known better, she deserves abuse. People could have been killed. As it is, literally dozens of people required medical treatment because of her selfishness.

It’s ironic because intelligence is relative and all these posters calling others “thick”/“stupid” are probably thick and stupid compared to someone else

How would you like to be a person who finds learning difficult in our society? Who struggles to reason as quickly as most other people? Who means well but makes “stupid” mistakes quite a lot of the time. Is ours a compassionate society that recognises that different people have different decision making ability and give the benefit of the doubt when clearly no ill will was intended??

You can't move away from this subject, as the examples you are using are about that woman.

There's nothing to suggest she had limited capacity.

And there has to be a line, if somes capacity to make good judgement cas make them a danger to themselves and others, what do we do then? Just let them carry on? Even if they kill someone.

If people make stupid mistakes, we can't just say 'oh well they didn't mean it?'

I don't know anyone who would call someone with limited mental capacity, stupid, if they did this.

Her actions were stupid, by the dictionary definition.

But for some reason this has really bothered you and I can work out why.

People don’t go around with their IQ tattooed on their forehead.

Yes we may mean “people of average intelligence who have done something silly” when we use the word stupid- but that is the point - we can’t know who is of average intelligence can we and so we extend our intolerance to everyone and people of lower intelligence are victimised due to no fault of their own.

We may assume a grown person with average intelligence “should” know not to lean out in front of a bike race with a sign for their grandparents, and then run away. Well, this lady did just that. So what shall we do? I know, call her stupid and start a witch hunt. Stupidity is a punishable offence, after all

Why are you defending what she did?

I don’t understand your argument at all
Perhaps I am stupid

This woman was not unintelligent, she was thoughtless and careless in her behaviour and caused a lot of harm to bodies, equipment and moral and, for that, she does, indeed, need to receive some sort of punishment. It will also inform other people how to behave in certain situations, whether they are intelligent or not.

OP
are you the woman? I mean it WAS a stupid thing to do.

I think it's an interesting question OP. Obviously in most countries the law will have a dividing point regarding capacity or not, but in reality of course intelligence is a spectrum. And I'm also pretty sure I've read in the past that average IQ of prison populations is lower than that of general civilian populations. In which case is there a question mark over discrimination in terms of judicial punishment?

Stupid is the correct word. There is a word for what she did.....its in the dictionary...stupid.