To think prejudice against low intelligence is a big problem.

[Bluebirdsflyover]

I just read a thread on here about the tour de France crash and that woman who caused it.

Now, the woman was culpable for sure, regardless of what you think is a proportionate punishment.
But some of the comments (in fact the vast majority of the comments) were along the lines of:

“She deserves what’s coming to her, stupid woman”

“Nobody is THAT thick”

“I’m glad she will be made an example of, bloody idiot”

And so on.

Like it never crossed anybody’s MIND that some people are actually not as quick witted as others? Some people just aren’t that bright. That they don’t deserve to be punished for that?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not making any assumptions about the woman’s cognitive ability, hell we ALL make mistakes, even those who have been to flipping Harvard, and often big ones. Mostly we are lucky and they are not broadcast to the whole world.

If was the way people on that post used perceived intelligence (or lack thereof) as a justification for vindictive retribution that really bothered me.

Cruel people and actions - punish them.
Malicious people and actions- punish them.
Spiteful, sadistic, abusive, coercive, etc etc - punish them all!
‘Stupidness’ (for lack of a better word... it’s quite telling we haven’t really got a world for low intelligence or poor judgement that isn’t derogatory)... should it be punished?
I don’t think so.

Our absolute distain for people who are deemed to act in a ‘stupid’ way is testament, I think, to deeply prejudicial attitudes about intelligence.

@CastawayQueen, you're spot on. I'm autistic and I'm tired of people assuming that someone must be autistic if they act like an arsehole. Plenty of us are capable of behaving decently, thanks. And I doubt the woman holding the sign was mentally disabled.

I think we can all summon up a memory where we have been monumentally stupid and not thought through the consequences of an action we have taken, whereas at the time we didn't think anything of it.

If there is no rule or barrier in place then we can't really expect everyone to behave in a certain way.

The problem here is with the people who organised this event not putting in appropriate crowd measures.

That is just a cop-out. For goodness sake, whatever happened to people having responsibility for their actions? If society has got to a state where people need to be told how to behave and have someone policing them all the time then there is no hope for us.

Just seen this news report:

*The police said that when they catch the culprit they intend to charge her with "unintentional short-term injury through a manifestly deliberate breach of a duty of safety or care", lieutenant-colonel Scherer said. [...]

"We witnessed inadmissable behaviour today with people running across the road in front of the race and children left to their own devices," race director Christian Prudhomme told French media. [...]
"We are telling people to keep off the route and to control their children," Scherer said"

You don't need a barrier, because there's this little thing called common sense which tells you that running into the road is a bad idea.

@merrymelody Not possible to barrier the entire route!!!

Most people who have any interest at all in the TDF such that they will travel and find a good spot en route to see the riders go past should know what is necessary regarding their own and the riders safety.

There are vehicles that come through ahead of riders which alerts the crowd to be on their guard and that riders are about to come through, at speed, racing.

There are always a few reckless people who want to get attention on themselves as a priority over others safety - every year.

You can be "unintelligent" and still have common sense, be caring, be loving, thoughtful, rational, etc.

You can also be unintelligent and be a complete arsehole.

the majority of people aren't geniuses so no, I don't think society is quick to condemn "stupid" people. Quite the opposite in some cases. See: "we've had enough of experts," the attacks on Chris Whitty, the sexism and disgusting comments aimed at Mary Beard... etc.

I just think we should be tolerant of mistakes where these are plainly obvious and without malice (eg tour de france)

This wasn't a mistake though, was it. It was her making sure she was on the TV. She couldn't give a shit about the race, just getting her mug on the TV.

I think that the public reaction would also be different if she had not gone missing from the police and if she had issued a statement with a full apology.

Cruel people and actions - punish them.
Malicious people and actions- punish them.
Spiteful, sadistic, abusive, coercive, etc etc - punish them all!
‘Stupidness’ (for lack of a better word... it’s quite telling we haven’t really got a world for low intelligence or poor judgement that isn’t derogatory)... should it be punished?

Your first 3 examples are all about actions. Your 4th example, stupidity, implies a state of being which doesn't fit this case.

No-one randomly pulled this woman onto a stage to condemn her as stupid. She chose her actions, and those actions were monumentally stupid.

I don't even much buy into the vagaries of whether an action is intentional or not. Who cares? Certainly none of the riders are musing about her intentions when they're suddenly airborne at 45 km/h

Scuse my stupid bold fail there. Suppose I deserved that one

That is just a cop-out. For goodness sake, whatever happened to people having responsibility for their actions?

^This! My DD1 (12) struggles with understanding the consequences of her actions and has a lot of accidents. She had a head injury at 6 weeks old whilst in foster care (both my DDs are adopted). She also has very little concept of danger.

She’s actually not unintelligent at all, she just doesn’t think about what she’s doing.

We wouldn’t be doing her any favours if we didn’t teach her that an ‘accident’ always has a cause and she needs to take responsibility for that. The fact that it wasn’t deliberate doesn’t mean that her actions didn’t cause the accident. (For example, carrying her iPad downstairs whilst still watching it and allowing it to slip out of her hands and break.)

I could easily imagine her doing something as stupid as the woman in question here. And no, I wouldn’t be offended if another person described her actions as ‘stupid’, because it would be no more than the truth.

It wouldn’t even be a comment on her IQ, as they wouldn’t know her, it would just be a comment on her actions.

I’m obviously hoping that something will click for her before she’s an adult so that she won’t do anything like the woman in question did. But it’s clear that there are adults who don’t learn that lesson very well.

I also think the op is making a huge leap. Someone who does something stupid, possibly due to a sense of entitlement, selfishness, whatever does not automatically lack intellectual capacity. Perfectly capable people can and do do utterly selfish entitled stupid things.

This woman was capable enough to get to that position, understand that if she popped out she’d be on tv, get her timings right to do so, ans then do a runner after she did it, she also planned it, why else bring her sign.

My automatic assumption would not be this was someone who lacked capacity but more someone who behaved in a selfish entitled manner.

Agree with bluntness a person's belief that it is there absolute right to do what they want to do and sod everyone else is more often than not selfish entitlement, which we see daily at work in my hospital- looking at those who park in the ambulance bay, try to smoke while standing next to someone on portable oxygen, unsuccessfully force open doors to the red zone as 'I'm just cutting through....'
Of course all of these could be seen as just ' whoops stupid' but are really just selfish entitlement.

I hadn't seen the video until this morning, just read about it. Not excusing her, but I had got the impression that she stepped into the road and it doesn't look like she did? Just held the sign out too far. She might have wanted a shot of the sign in front of the oncoming stream of cyclists, not realised how close they were or not realised that a cardboard sign could knock cyclists down like that?

Stupid, for sure, but not quite as extremely so as I had thought.

I think most of us have done very stupid things at some point. Said stupid things didn't have a bad outcome and we then didn't have the consequences of them.

People didn't used to be as attention-seeking as they are now, wanting to get their face on TV if they possibly can. When has that become a 'thing'? I was talking to somebody about this a few weeks back. The public used to mill about in TV shows, minding their own business. Now, extras have to be employed to provide crowds because of some gormless attention-seeker who craves an undeserved spotlight.

This woman at the Tour De France is lucky that she didn't cause serious injury. I saw the crash and she was very lucky, as were the riders. I think she does need consequences and perhaps a few more for her cowardice.

As for people who brandish the 'stupid' word around and refer to people as 'thick', that's always been present here. There's no tolerance for stupidity because those who declare others as stupid aren't honest enough to think of their own foibles which could have resulted in a negative happening, but fortunately didn't.

I wince at posters though who go onto threads where a woman is suffering from her choices, at the hands of somebody abusive - and enjoy themselves bringing her to book for her 'stupidity'/lack of picking a good partner. Without exception, people who victim-blame have an inherent deficiency coupled with nauseating smugness yet with an astonishing lack of introspection.

I agree with you, OP. It's an epidemic!

@DrSbaitso

I hadn't seen the video until this morning, just read about it. Not excusing her, but I had got the impression that she stepped into the road and it doesn't look like she did? Just held the sign out too far. She might have wanted a shot of the sign in front of the oncoming stream of cyclists, not realised how close they were or not realised that a cardboard sign could knock cyclists down like that?

Stupid, for sure, but not quite as extremely so as I had thought.

Is this a serious post?

@Moonmelodies

Would it not be intelligent to ride a bike watching where you are going, and allowing for stopping distance case of the unexpected?

WTAF

She is clearly stepping into the road into the cyclists' path! If it was about wanting the sign to be seen why not stand on the higher grassy knoll behind her, away from them?!

Is this a serious post?

Yes. I've not been paying much attention to the news the last few days (reasons) and I'd got the impression that this woman actually stepped out in front of the cyclists. Now catching up, and it seems she didn't.

It was stupid, absolutely, but I've been seeing comments everywhere about her literally stepping in front of the cyclists.

It looks to me as though she was trying to get a camera shot of her sign just in front of the upcoming cyclists and completely misjudged. How you could misjudge at that distance or think it's a goid idea to face away from the riders as you do it, I don't know, but it seems she did.

It's very stupid, definitely, but from a great deal of the reactions, you would think she parked herself bodily on the road.

Someone who is capable of living and managing independently, but behaves thoughtlessly and stupidly to the extent that someone else gets injured, might deserve to be punished. People do need to take responsibility for themselves.

Someone who lacks the capacity to manage independently and regulate their own behaviour should be supported/supervised.

I have just watched the video posted above in slow-mo. The position of the spectators in general is terrible! Loads of them have one or even both feet on the road, even as the cyclists pass. The woman with the sign doesn’t step out so much as just continue to stand there.

*19Cam2020

I don't think it's low intelligence that's abhorred actually, I think it's ignorance. There's a huge difference between people who can't learn or think in a particular way and people who refuse to.*

I think this is an important point that has been largely missed, and the word 'stupid' is used too often when ignorant would be more apt.

We shouldn't be derogatory about people with low intelligence, stupid or idiot are words that are used as a catch-all for a variety of behaviours and it's worth considering more carefully their use.

FWIW if you think that woman's behaviour was bad, wait until you see the complete knobhead spectators (in the middle of the road/blocking the road/physically hands on the riders pushing or slapping/waving flags literally in the faces of riders etc) on the mountain stages... and their behaviour IS deliberate.

@MichelleScarn

She is clearly stepping into the road into the cyclists' path! If it was about wanting the sign to be seen why not stand on the higher grassy knoll behind her, away from them?!

Yes, I saw stills like that and also assumed she took another step, but from the video it looks as though she didn't walk any further than that and it was her sign that caught the poor guy.

I couldn't agree more that she should have stood somewhere else and did something incredibly dumb! You don't wave even your flimsy cardboard sign in the road in front of the Tour de France, especially while not looking at the riders! It's just that in the rush to label how stupid she was, a fair number of people seem to believe she did something even more egregiously and extremely stupid than she did. In context of the OP's question, that's interesting.