Trying not to be a twat and failing

[Merryoldgoat]

I’m in a bit of a quandary. I’m recruiting for a maternity cover role in my department. I used to be a bit of a twit about grammar and spelling in CVS and application forms but I’m trying to be less arseholeish about it - I think it’s divisive and ignores how language devils over time etc.

But Christ - the stuff I’m getting is killing me. Is not really grammar or spelling per se, more… turn of phrase?

I’ve had people ‘passionate about numeracy and management accounts’, wanting to ‘further assist [my] establishment’ and ‘convey all my abilities in the different facets of your organisation’.

All this weird language - why? Who is advising people so poorly?

My old-fashioned CV still does the job - I just what to know: what do you want to do and what can you do?

The poor grammar and spelling combined with the strange language is making it nearly impossible to hire anyone.

Am I unlucky? Or is this it? These candidates span 20s to 40s so it’s not generational.

I’m finding that as soon as I start reading a cover letter that hasn’t told me exactly why they’re applying for the job and why they are a good candidate in a paragraph I want to sling it in the bin but I feel like a twat.

What do I do? Just interview regardless? Or try again?

I’ve not reread but I’ll certainly have typos etc so I’m not immune to it - I just go the extra mile when looking for a job.

Agree completely. I think some people get a bit carried away trying to ‘stand out’ and use a thesaurus to inject unique words - but this can work against them massively, especially if the first stage is monitored by a machine and not a human who can’t read it at all!

There definitely needs to be a lot more advice out there about writing a good CV/ cover letter.

Writing a post on MN doesn’t really require the same attention as your CV so I can forgive you for any errors!

Thanks Flap - I was starting to feel like a right cunt.

If they are like that, I'd ignore cover letter and skim over qualifications and experience

@Hankunamatata

If they are like that, I'd ignore cover letter and skim over qualifications and experience

I have been but even the CVs are tricky to decipher in some cases. I’m an accountant looking for an assistant accountant. The CV should write itself but I find myself wondering if they actually have done things like bank recs, balance sheet recs, payroll, accounts to TB etc.

You can’t trust quals alone. Last time I had 5 fully qualified people to interview and they completely failed the basic bookkeeping test - it was bizarre.

This sounds really harsh but honestly as a dyslexic person who's had this shit all my life. Where thick as mince people act like they're really intelligent because they rarely make grammar mistakes. It's not a marker of intelligence. You just come across like a grade A twat and quite ableist.

@Yaykyay

I said very clearly I try not to be a grammar twat and purposely suppress thar instinct. I also don’t proofread my MN posts as I’m at home ruminating.

And I’m not high and mighty. I’m just stumped at what I’m getting in terms of job applications.

If someone wrote a two line email which said ‘I’m a PQ accountant with general ledger experience looking for more management accounting experience’ I’d be overjoyed.

It depends on the job, but if it requires a high standard of written English then absolutely fine to assess grammar, punctuation and writing style. Clear communication is crucial in many roles!

Yaykyay I don't think expecting people to be able to clearly express why they want a job and what their qualifications/experience are means OP thinks she's better than everyone else ?

But I’m specifically saying I’m NOT looking at grammar first and foremost @Yaykyay

If any of the applicants wrote as well as you I’d be over the bloody moon (without insulting me obviously).

One of my pet hates is when someone tries so hard to sound intelligent that they obfuscate their meaning. Just come out with it in simple, clear, easy to understand language!

Fortunately (because who would want to deal with this confusing diction in daily life?!), few actually speak that way. They're just under the misapprehension that it makes them sound more educated and fluent than they really are.

@JoanOgden

That’s the issue - we communicate with a lot of stakeholders and parents and decent written and spoken English is a must. It doesn’t need to be Keats, but I need to be confident they will express themselves well and clearly.

@frigglerock

I think you’re probably right and I will review tomorrow without letters and just look at CVs.

@Yaykyay

It's a bit rich for you to be a grammar twat yet not properly write CVs

See it can happen to the best of us, even the high and mighty.

How old are you op? Sounds like you haven't moved with the times, and you think your better than everyone.

Autocorrect I presume.

It’s been taught as standard for 10-20 years to start a CV with a “personal profile” or similar, so you can’t hold that against them. It’s also now being taught that applicants should cram the maximum number of keywords in there to beat the dreaded “electronic sift” that some employers and agencies use. Some people are better equipped to pull this off with a degree of elegance than others. Likewise, some have better SPAG skills than others and some have dyslexia or similar.

Since you’re recruiting for an accounting role, SPAG isn’t strictly critical.

Decide what really matters and use that to set yourself a checklist or rubric to score the CVs against. Then you have a numerical (and equality audit proof) decision making tool.

I'm not sure that wanting people to write a half-decent CV represents the failure of the OP to 'move with the times' 🙄 That just sounds like the piss-poor 'but language evolves' argument used by people who want to write 'could of' and 'with myself'.
And you're absolutely right about the overuse of 'passionate', OP. It's bloody ubiquitous and it's infuriating. 'Passion' literally means 'suffering', so anyone suggesting they're 'passionate about management accounts', needs to have a sharp word with themselves.

You could flip this round and look at it from the applicant’s side. How clear is your advert? Are you asking the right questions on your application form? Do you state what information you need in the cover letter? I work for a large organisation who has a separate recruitment department and sometimes they don’t send out the right advert so we get strange applicants! Of course sometimes people have just not read the advert correctly.

Its a maternity post though right? This is always going to impact on the quality of candidates you're likely to get unless you're paying an absolute fortune. People churn out applications for temporary jobs.

@OrrisRoot

A personal statement is fine obviously but I thought it should be a précis of your skills, quals and experience? None of the ones I have read give any clue about them - just say things like ‘looking for a role where I can uniquely contribute to a dynamic environment and foster collaborative working relationships’.

If it said something like this

‘PQ ACCA Accountant with experience in SME environment looking to take next step into management accounting role. Excellent Excel skills and proficient user of Sage 50 and Quickbooks’

Then great.

You could flip this round and look at it from the applicant’s side. How clear is your advert? Are you asking the right questions on your application form?

What has that got to do with applicants using a strange turn of phrase or poor SPAG?

If communication is important for the role and they are writing in that weird Apprentice style (“I want to work with yourself Lord Sugar”), have bad grammar and/or seem unable to write concisely, I think it’s perfectly reasonable not to shortlist. If it’s not so important for the role, and they have good experience and seem keen for the role, I’d probably still shortlist for interview. But it sounds like you are talking about the former

@OrrisRoot

And yes, I will have to just pick the best and test.

And PP is correct about mat cover - it’s obviously not the most attractive but could be permanent (although I don’t know that yet so can’t say in ad).

@Yaykyay

This sounds really harsh but honestly as a dyslexic person who's had this shit all my life. Where thick as mince people act like they're really intelligent because they rarely make grammar mistakes. It's not a marker of intelligence. You just come across like a grade A twat and quite ableist.

This ^

Plus, thick as mince is an amazing phrase that I haven't heard for years!

My advice would be to go through an agency - they will do the leg work for you and get you the right candidates.
You will pay, but it may be worth it. I expect all serious accountancy job hunters would sign up with a specialist agency.