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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry the new health minister Sajid Javid will privatise the NHS…

120 replies

Ijustknowitstimetogo · 28/06/2021 13:23

But not before running it into the ground?

He’s reassigning from his position at US bank JP Morgan where he earns £150k as an advisor.

JP Morgan say they "see the opportunities that lie ahead" for private healthcare.

He’s already making promises that we will never return to Coronavirus rules. Shouldn’t that be decided by any future epidemiology and health service data? Not just an empty promise based on finance only.

Not looking good, is it?

OP posts:
roarfeckingroarr · 29/06/2021 09:12

Yawn

mustlovegin · 29/06/2021 09:15

I agree in part with what you are saying Iggly but some aspects you can't change (i.e. people living longer)

But you can change out of control immigration for instance which has had services like the NHS, schools, benefits and housing bursting at the seams for years

Also, are all the procedures that the NHS covers strictly medically necessary or are they more 'lifestyle' related and should be paid for privately?

ForeverAintEnough3 · 29/06/2021 09:18

Would it be so bad if NHS was partially privatised? I’m not heralding the Irish system at all as of course it’s dreadful but from personal experience growing up I had a medical card as my parents were low earners. Now I’m a high earner myself I pay for my own healthcare. I have always had access to healthcare in line with my needs. Now in covid I see constant threads on here trying to get to GP being impossible in U.K. whereas it’s normal here. I’ve been the dr for several non emergency things without any issue.

Maybe NHS would benefit from partial privatisation? Those who can pay and those who can’t still get free healthcare?

mustlovegin · 29/06/2021 09:20

Those who can pay and those who can’t still get free healthcare

The line often becomes blurry after some time. It often doesn't work

Obbydoo · 29/06/2021 09:26

Can anyone provide me with some statistics that prove the conservatives have increased privatisation of the NHS? Not heresay, not single examples, I mean proper statistical analysis that demonstrates that the NHS is more at risk of privatisation now than under labour.

(**Tip - you won't find any! It's a common myth that has zero fact behind it. The NHS has had minimal increases of privatisation over the last 30 years. The rate of increase is no greater under the Tories than it was under labour).

DdraigGoch · 29/06/2021 09:26

@Imasoulman

I'm trying to think of one thing that the tories have privatised that has since improved or been better value for the end user
British Steel, British Coal, National Freight Consortium, British Aerospace, Rolls Royce, British Leyland, British Telecom...
Sanguinesuzy · 29/06/2021 09:33

When people are talking about privatisation, do they mean private profit orientated hospitals like bupa or spire ones providing all care (apart from a small number of state ones for the poor) or people paying for health via insurance so care not funded through the state entirely ? Or both ?
So if via insurance what happens if you have the misfortune to be ill and require multiple investigations/meds/ invasive treatments ? Will you pay more in premiums to fund that care ? Then when you can't work due to said ill health what happens ? Shunted to a second class system ? Seems to me these kind of proposals always emanate from those healthy and wealthy enough to sort themselves out and resent contributing to the health care of others....

Sanguinesuzy · 29/06/2021 09:35

@Obbydoo what have labour got to do with it ? Tories have been in power majority of the last 50-70 years.

Pazuzu · 29/06/2021 09:38

Oh good. Yet another nasty Tories privatize the NHS post. It's been the Left's mantra for decades.

Privatization can be a good thing and for all it's "evil", a hell of a lot of Trusts seem to use it when it suits them.

As did Labour to massively off balance sheet debt so they could trumpet to the world how the NHS was safe with them.

Hoowhoowho · 29/06/2021 09:38

It’s unlikely that full or even partial privatisation of the NHS will happen.

We should ask ourselves why, even after years of Tory government we still have a struggling but existing NHS and the answer is simple; it’s cheap.

We spend very little per head of population on healthcare and our outcomes are ‘good enough’ on a population level.
Individually you’d get better healthcare in many Western European health systems but the cost to the country of introducing this is too high.

When you look at the world rankings of healthcare systems the NHS comes out on top for efficiency ie outcomes for cost. It was top of the WHO rankings because it is remarkably efficient (even though those of us who work in it would consider it remarkably inefficient)

Having a National system with very little alternative suppresses staff wages which are a major cost in any healthcare system. Nurses could earn double their wage in many other countries. It even suppresses wages at the top with top consultants paid less than they would be in other countries.

Systems to assess cost liability, charge people and chase non payers are expensive to set up, run and administer. There’s a reason the NHS currently makes only a token effort to chase foreign nationals for payment. It’s actually cheaper to accept the costs and let it go than pursue them. Imagine the cost of having a team responsible for collecting and managing payment at every GP surgery.

Also using GP’s as gatekeepers is a massive cost saving. If we had free access to specialists that would cost far more, at the moment GP’s limit the number of people who see specialists. Of course that means some people who need to see them don’t but overall on a population level it works well enough. Enough people see specialists in a timely fashion.

We need to be honest about the NHS. What is its purpose? If it is to provide good enough healthcare outcomes for low cost, it’s working perfectly. But if we want better healthcare outcomes or higher patient satisfaction then we need to be prepared to pay more.

However I think we can rest easy that with a growing aging population no government is going to fully privatise healthcare. It would be much much too expensive. The NHS is the ultimate austerity healthcare system; cheap and good enough.

Iggly · 29/06/2021 09:41

@Pazuzu

Oh good. Yet another nasty Tories privatize the NHS post. It's been the Left's mantra for decades.

Privatization can be a good thing and for all it's "evil", a hell of a lot of Trusts seem to use it when it suits them.

As did Labour to massively off balance sheet debt so they could trumpet to the world how the NHS was safe with them.

I do believe that PFI model started under John major. Some call Tony Blair and Gordon brown “Thatcher’s children”

I wouldn’t mind privatisation if I knew that the NHS were allowed to hold these private firms to account and that this private companies were not making profit off the back off ill people. And that those profits weren’t ending up in the pockets of rich millionaires.

Sadly that’s not the case though. The Tories are all about profit for their rich mates. Covid has thrown that into sharp relief.

DdraigGoch · 29/06/2021 09:42

@mustlovegin

This weird fetishisation of the nhs amongst people who don’t know what they’re talking about has massively set British healthcare back

Do you know how it works in the US, where a mere blood test can cost in excess of 200 usd? We don't need that

We need more people employed, paying taxes and in a position to fund a good service. Less overpopulation

Why is it that whenever someone suggests that the current model is not working, someone immediately pipes up with "but the US..."?

Most of the world do not have the completely state-funded model used in the UK. Likewise most of the world do not have the US model. There are alternatives that don't involve installing chip and pin machines into ambulances.

Soontobe60 · 29/06/2021 09:43

The man alone isn’t able to make such monumental decisions. One could argue that the people who voted this shit show into office are culpable, as it was common knowledge that the Cons were exploring such avenues.

Brainwave89 · 29/06/2021 09:46

Massive leap in assumptions OP. He has a background in merchant banking, so he will run the health service into the ground? Javid came from humble origins, has a strong respect for people from all backgrounds and did well as Chancellor until he resigned rather than comply with Cummings demands on advisors. Although I have private cover I note it is quite limited, particularly on areas such as mental health and long term ailments. However, a lot of my family work in the NHS, and it does require reform. Australia and most of the EU have better hybrid systems which run far better than ours, with better patient outcomes.

DynamoKev · 29/06/2021 09:57

@roarfeckingroarr

Yawn
Great contribution.
Iggly · 29/06/2021 09:58

@Brainwave89

Massive leap in assumptions OP. He has a background in merchant banking, so he will run the health service into the ground? Javid came from humble origins, has a strong respect for people from all backgrounds and did well as Chancellor until he resigned rather than comply with Cummings demands on advisors. Although I have private cover I note it is quite limited, particularly on areas such as mental health and long term ailments. However, a lot of my family work in the NHS, and it does require reform. Australia and most of the EU have better hybrid systems which run far better than ours, with better patient outcomes.
Did well as chancellor?

He didn’t even deliver a full budget so how do you make that assessment?

He apparently worked from Deutsch bank and was part of the gaggle that pushed the financial instruments which triggered the credit crunch.

And look at his sneering response to questions about decent pay for the NHS…

DynamoKev · 29/06/2021 09:58

This government has already abolished NHS GP provision in our area.
The only way for me to see a GP is to pay privately.

poshme · 29/06/2021 10:03

@DynamoKev

This government has already abolished NHS GP provision in our area. The only way for me to see a GP is to pay privately.
How exactly has the government done that?
GlutenFreeGingerCake · 29/06/2021 10:05

Good thing we all protected the NHS through the pandemic so it's ready to sell.

mustlovegin · 29/06/2021 10:15

most of the EU have better hybrid systems which run far better than ours, with better patient outcomes

The EU system is not perfect in every country. I know someone who they wanted to subject to an expensive private operation when all that was needed was a change of antibiotics after the correct bacterial culture was completed (by the state hospital)

mustlovegin · 29/06/2021 10:15

This government has already abolished NHS GP provision in our area.
The only way for me to see a GP is to pay privately

How is this possible? Odd

mustlovegin · 29/06/2021 10:16

The fact that Javid worked for JP Morgan doesn't automatically mean that he will push for privatisation, obviously

Blossomtoes · 29/06/2021 10:29

The NHS has had minimal increases of privatisation over the last 30 years. The rate of increase is no greater under the Tories than it was under labour)

The degree of privatisation has galloped away since 2013 and Lansley’s lunatic “reforms”. The amount of money wasted on contract tendering is eye watering.

luisesepulveda · 29/06/2021 10:36

I wish the access to healthcare services was easier. At the moment our GP won't do any face to face appointments, and they haven't done since the first lockdown. I have been having some issues with my periods and have avoided calling them as they usually don't even call back.

I disagree with a poster above that it's a problem with people paying less taxes, most of those I know do pay and still get no access to services.

It's also very dependent on which area you live in, some do have reasonable waiting times, others have no services at all!

BigWoollyJumpers · 29/06/2021 10:42

Anyone with a little time, can download the Ten Year Plan for the NHS, aka Longterm Plan.

This was put together, CROSS PARTY, and with input from NHS providers, doctors, nurses, charities, health groups, patient groups etc etc. You know, all those people you bang on about being the ones that should be consulted when future plans are decided.

Contrary to popular belief MH didn't make decisions on his own, nor will SJ. Most of the NHS is run by career NHS people, either through the graduate scheme, onwards and upwards, and ex-doctors, surgeons, nurses. Simon Stevens good example. Look at your local hospital or health trust and see who runs the board. It is a myth to say that it is run by people who don't know anything about it.

While I am banging on, MH also cannot gift deals, PPE or otherwise to his mates. It doesn't work like that.