To worry the new health minister Sajid Javid will privatise the NHS…

[Ijustknowitstimetogo]

But not before running it into the ground?

He’s reassigning from his position at US bank JP Morgan where he earns £150k as an advisor.

JP Morgan say they "see the opportunities that lie ahead" for private healthcare.

He’s already making promises that we will never return to Coronavirus rules. Shouldn’t that be decided by any future epidemiology and health service data? Not just an empty promise based on finance only.

Not looking good, is it?

Yanbu to think it but it needs to happen to some degree. The NHS is broken. I won't even start on my rant about GP's but at this stage, some level of privatisation would be fine with me if it meant I could actually get my sick baby seen.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene the introduction of privatisation has made it worse. I can't imagine that privatisation will improve physical care because the drive is profit, and each company serving its own interests rather than those of the patient.
Yes- mental health services need a massive overhaul. They really aren't fit for purpose.

Not saying he wouldn't but I reckon Dido Harding and her new job at the NHS will accomplish this before he gets a chance.

It would be pretty hard to make things worse. Someone needs to grasp the nettle and do things differently.
Other countries do things far better with a mix of free and insured provision. I don't understand the objection to some contribution, for those who can, at point of delivery. Yet we cling onto the idea that it must all be free to everyone.

Define privatisation. Do you mean people paying for care, or do you mean the government buying in services from private companies? Buying in services from private companies is something the NHS has always done - GPs are private businesses and always have been - And it can be an excellent way of providing care. From what I see of integrated care services that are offered by NHS-only organisations they are still horribly fragmented and often very badly run.

I'm trying to think of one thing that the tories have privatised that has since improved or been better value for the end user

@Imasoulman

Just another spineless hypocrite. He resigned as Chancellor because he couldn't work within the confines of a Johnson government...... But here he is again!

No, he resigned because he refused to be bullied by Cummings, let’s not rewrite history.

There’s no doubt that the NHS needs root and branch reform, it’s a mess, particularly since the 2012 Health and Social Care Bill.

The problem is businesses are not about caring for the vulnerable

There are lots of good, privately run hospitals already. Also care homes and schools. And the NHS uses loads of agency nurses etc.

You'd be surprised how much of the NHS is privately run already, with the NHS paying the private company.

Private business isn't all bad. I think it's worth a go anyway.

I don't understand the objection to some contribution, for those who can, at point of delivery. Yet we cling onto the idea that it must all be free to everyone.

It's not free though is it? We pay for it though our taxes, whether we use the service or not. And those who earn more, pay more.
I've paid taxes all my working life, but have only really used the NHS to have two babies. That's not a complaint - I'm lucky to never have been in need of medical treatment - it's just an example of the NHS not being free.

He’s already making promises that we will never return to Coronavirus rules.

Good!

And no, non-elected officials should not be deciding that, the electorate should, that's democracy.

It won't be up to him. It's been Tory policy for years, they've been selling it off piecemeal in the hope that we don't notice.

SJ is every bit as much of a wanker as the rest of them.

I’m lucky enough that dh has BUPA cover for us all through his work. I completely forgot about it until he reminded me.
I’ve a really painful knee and talking to my GP (over the phone) she couldn’t give a crap, it keeps me awake at night in agony. I got ‘here’s some ibuprofen cream’, she couldn’t examine my knee as it was over the phone, said she’d get me physio, letter came, letter states they are not seeing patients.
Booked through BUPA, consultant examines my knee, now booked into having an MRI on it. No dicking about. Happy days, I’m getting somewhere. It’s been months through the NHS.

There needs to be competition at the level of the consumer (patient) for this to work.

The only way for service standards to improve is for individual patients to be given the opportunity to vote with their feet in the event of receiving unacceptable treatment/service.

This is the issue with the NHS, can you imagine if your local Sainsbury’s shut up shop for an hour at lunchtime to restock the shelves?

It’s just a risible suggestion, but in the monopoly that is the NHS, it is somehow seen as perfectly acceptable because there is no competitive pressure to work creatively.

Creating a competitive market will also hugely increase nurses’ pay too, such an irony given the rabid opposition of the Unions to the idea.

It's been Tory policy for years, they've been selling it off piecemeal in the hope that we don't notice.

It's not just the Tory's, Tony Blair's labour was upto it too.

This is how they do it 'more efficiently'. Cream off all the super easy cases and enjoy the profits. Anything even slightly complex goes back to the NHS.

What's worse is I then had to be referred into the NHS and back on a waiting list so I still haven't had it done

Which means that private healthcare will make profit from our NHS and ultimately the tax payer

If it could be achieved I'd prefer a system such as found in the rest of Europe or Australia, where the State acts as an insurer, rather than provider. For many people, the NHS really isn't working at the moment. I know several people who've had to pay £thousands for knee and hip replacements, because of quotes of 2 year waits on the NHS, and these aren't rich people, with money to spare.

It's not just the Tory's, Tony Blair's labour was upto it too.

Yes, many hospitals are on lease and it’s bankrupting them slowly

Much as I hate the Tories, I don't actually think they have an intention to change the whole thing to a US system.

They will, however, award contracts to 'partnerships' to run things, where all the risk goes to the NHS and all the profit to private sector, no matter how incompetently the latter run things.

I do think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a German style system where households like mine pay something towards a health system that keeps it free for those in need. But the Tories would never do anything that sensible.

Yes, many hospitals are on lease and it’s bankrupting them slowly

Yep PFI's private company's involved with the workings of hospitals, when it would have been cheaper at the time for them to borrow the money rather than get involved in these schemes.

Surely NI stamp was set up to pay for health care and if you’re not earning enough or retired you don’t pay

@TheGumption

Yanbu to think it but it needs to happen to some degree. The NHS is broken. I won't even start on my rant about GP's but at this stage, some level of privatisation would be fine with me if it meant I could actually get my sick baby seen.

Have you thought to ask yourself why it’s broken?

It’s been chronically underfunded for well over a decade, that’s why. By the Tories.

Sajid worked for one of the investment banks who created the financial crisis of 2008.

Have people forgotten northern rock? Queues to withdraw money? The credit crunch?

That was caused by investment bankers gambling with mortgage payments. Sounds ludicrous but it truly was what happened. They gambled billions, those bets failed and were so massive that they needed bailing out And bailed out they were by our governments.

And we continue to pay the price with austerity and we are somehow sucked into blaming the “expensive” public sector.
And you have the likes of Sajid and Rishi who were at the heart of those banks crowing about tightening belts when they were the ones who fucked things up.

It’s disgusting. Where did all that money go to bail out the banks? Where is it….

I recommend the book The Big Short which gives a good insight into the banking crisis. It’s depressing how many people have forgotten the root cause of austerity.

There is a more up to date version, but this is just a recycled meme that has been doing the rounds for years imgur.com/gallery/d3eJ9Tp, it does nothing but stir up die hards that would never vote conservative anyway, it is the same as Republicans thinking the Democrats (who are more right leanign than the UK conservitives) as being socialist.

Most people are now coming round to the idea we should follow the Nordic/EU model of a mixed health care system which includes a healthy mix of both private and public, even the most ardent anti tories accept the NHS needs some reform.

One thing you also seem to forget with the whole JPMorgan thing is that they where very heavy on the Remain side and was largely promoted as someone who should be listened to.

In short, you have just recycled a facebook meme without applying any critical thinking...

@EerieSilence

NHS will become the like of Irish HSE or even US state owned healthcare. Private insurance will be needed to get treatment fast, in high-tech hospitals and decent environment. Lots of things covered for free will have to be paid for.

Why couldn't it be like France instead?