Gina and Oxford PPE

[Possiblynotever]

My DD is in year 12. She is currently thinking about a History degree and her State school is (heavily) pushing her towards Oxbridge and a double honours. She is giving her best and her results are very good, so she probably will have the marks (although this is no guarantee). She chose a Maths A level and she is finding it hard - she reached an A but with a lot of sweating which in my mind is quite normal. She has decided not to do anything at Uni requiring further maths. Apparently, some of her classmates are amazing, especially those who want to apply for PPE at Oxford, which seems to be the achievement of all achievements. Those who get in are the best of the best, at least in my DD mind. Now, Gina Colandangelo gained an Oxford PPE which means she must have been bloody talented. The only thing she will ever be remembered for was snugging the Health Minister in his office.
What a waste. Why? AIBU in thinking that there is still a cohort of women who work bloody hard to get into the most difficult jobs and then just sit on their achievements? And why do they do this?

@drainrat

Law definitely isn't the most sought after degree at Oxford.

It's PPE.

On average, Law receives around 1600 applications. Law has an acceptance rate of 13%.

PPE receives around 2500 applications a year and has an acceptance rate of 11%.

PPE is easily the most known course at Oxford by a long shot.

The idea that English would be the most sought after degree at Oxford is fairly absurd. Surely common sense could have told you as much?

English gets around 1300 applications a year.
Law gets around 1900 applications a year.
PPE gets around 2500 applications a year.

I’m intrigued about Oxbridge, I don’t personally know anyone who went there. But do know people who went to other prestigious uni’s (Edinburgh, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff). Is it true you don’t go through the UCAS system to get there?

She was an equity director at a communications consultancy prior to both of those jobs, I think by most people’s measures that would be considered successful - probably earning north of £120-150k.

This.

What more are you looking for?

Do you really not understand OP?

I hope for your daughter’s sake that you manage to work out that getting to Oxford doesn’t mean that she then has to work in a certain type of job, earn a certain amount of money, and change the world. A degree from Oxford opens a world of opportunities but it shouldn’t mean you have to make any choices you don’t want to.

(From somebody who got a first in law from Oxford and a masters in law from Cambridge.)

@DarkMatter731 What about E&M? Something like a 6% acceptance rate I think.

A PP mentioned English at Oxford being highly competitive. It used to be but I don’t think it is these days.

@BiscoffAddict

I’m intrigued about Oxbridge, I don’t personally know anyone who went there. But do know people who went to other prestigious uni’s (Edinburgh, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff). Is it true you don’t go through the UCAS system to get there?

Yes you go through UCAS, but the deadline is earlier and they invite everyone to interview and a stay in a college.

Academic qualifications doesn’t make you immune to love. Maybe Gina loves Matt..it shouldn’t have happened because he’s married

Very happy to accept @DarkMatter731’s stats - I was there 20 years ago, and the numbers changed every year, as eventually did the elasticity of faculty places. Agreed about the greater scarcity of E&M places at The Other Place. Subjects go in fashions, like anything else. I wonder how many still read Greats.

Interesting, thanks @RickiTarr

@BiscoffAddict

I’m intrigued about Oxbridge, I don’t personally know anyone who went there. But do know people who went to other prestigious uni’s (Edinburgh, Liverpool, Bristol, Cardiff). Is it true you don’t go through the UCAS system to get there?

Yes you still apply through UCAS but you have to apply by 15 October.

You are interviewed by the very people who will be teaching you. Not many universities other than Oxbridge that do that. Very intimidating and very exciting at the same time.

This is what I was going to say! Her intellect may be quite ordinary, like a lot of people who go to Oxford or Cambridge. They go to the right school and are heavily coached. A lot of them are especially thick about the nature of society because they’re brought up in bubbles of privilege.

Lol @pastabest btw

@BiscoffAddict

Interesting, thanks *@RickiTarr*

Well I say “everyone”. I mean everyone under consideration.

Not sure what your daughter and maths have to do with the question?

I have a friend who did PPE at Oxford who you'd probably not be impressed by. But they are kind and happy, what more can you want for a person? It's not a golden ticket to the highest echelons of industry, though it certainly helps. My friend's dad is CEO of a FTSE 100 company and has a psychology degree from a uni you'd probably not have heard of. People develop at different times of life, some who are academic are useless at work, others who fail at school excel in the real world. generally there is a correlation between impressive degrees and success but it's not a rule. Surely not news to anyone.

@dotdotdotdash

I don't think this is fair.

Oxford is really, really trying to get kids from other backgrounds to apply and get in. For example, Oxford have a college just for mature students called Harris Manchester. I have a good friend who left school at 16, worked odd jobs for 6 years, then did A-levels and went to Oxford. The guy graduated last year at the age of 27.

It's just that the quality of kids who apply from 'posh' backgrounds is higher than the quality of kids from 'normal' backgrounds. This is partially because schools provide them with extra help and support but also because parents heavily influence their children. There's not much else Oxford can do about the situation.

And most people who go to Oxford/Cambridge will be remarkably average in career outcomes. Around 3300 kids graduate from Oxford every year.

Around maybe 20-30 in each year will really do something legendary. The rest will live mundane lives and die without reaching any fame or fortune.

Completely confused by most of your post, but does that mean my DD is going to have to snog Sajid Javid now to have any hope of a life after she finishes her PPE degree at Oxford? I thought I'd brought her up to have far greater aspirations.

I agree with you @DarkMatter731 there is a lot of good work going on in universities to encourage non-typical candidates. And yes, I know there is diversity in Oxford and Cambridge already, but the people who get into the top positions in industry and government are surprisingly homogenous. 67% of all elected British prime ministers went to one of 9 schools (Clarendon group schools). Read about it here - blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-dogged-persistence-of-the-old-boy/

I just want to point out that if you are within these powerful networks (and PPE at Oxford certainly counts), you are much more likely to reach high office, and it's not got that much to do with intellectual ability. Matt Hancock for example got his first job in the Treasury after meeting George Osborne at a party - both Oxford alumni - no interview required.

I would just like people to recognise that these people are not necessarily brighter or more able than a lot of people without these advantages. And I am absolutely sick of being governed by Old Etonians!

Their performance is indeed sickening.

What a spiteful OP!

Oxford was full of average people who’d had very expensive educations in the nineties.

I knew lots of people at Cambridge who'd had very expensive education. They were also extremely intelligent, hard working and some went on to have very successful careers.

Dh went to Oxford a number of years ago but less time ago than Hancock and Coladangelo and I have to say those reading PPE then were the wealthiest of the wealthiest and the most public school of the public school. Had no idea it was meant to be something more prestigious than any other degree from oxbridge.

I bet you’re working 9-3pm doing admin on a industrial estate just outside of town.

^ That’s an awful thing to say if you think that that’s a put-down.
I’m embarrassed for you.

@dotdotdotdash

I agree with you *@DarkMatter731* there is a lot of good work going on in universities to encourage non-typical candidates. And yes, I know there is diversity in Oxford and Cambridge already, but the people who get into the top positions in industry and government are surprisingly homogenous. 67% of all elected British prime ministers went to one of 9 schools (Clarendon group schools). Read about it here - blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-dogged-persistence-of-the-old-boy/

I just want to point out that if you are within these powerful networks (and PPE at Oxford certainly counts), you are much more likely to reach high office, and it's not got that much to do with intellectual ability. Matt Hancock for example got his first job in the Treasury after meeting George Osborne at a party - both Oxford alumni - no interview required.

I would just like people to recognise that these people are not necessarily brighter or more able than a lot of people without these advantages. And I am absolutely sick of being governed by Old Etonians!

I would just like people to recognise that these people are not necessarily brighter or more able than a lot of people without these advantages

This is so true. This assumption that only the brightest students go to Oxbridge is laughable.

The majority of them have attended private schools, so straight away they have an advantage, over children from a state comp. They’ve had years of prep so of course they’re going to get the top grades.

Social mobility or lack of, has a lot to answer for. This is the problem when you have a two tier society, the majority of people running this county, past and present, have come from undeniable privilege. Don’t mistake that for superior intelligence….

Not all private school kids who apply get in. How do you explain that?