Gina and Oxford PPE

[Possiblynotever]

My DD is in year 12. She is currently thinking about a History degree and her State school is (heavily) pushing her towards Oxbridge and a double honours. She is giving her best and her results are very good, so she probably will have the marks (although this is no guarantee). She chose a Maths A level and she is finding it hard - she reached an A but with a lot of sweating which in my mind is quite normal. She has decided not to do anything at Uni requiring further maths. Apparently, some of her classmates are amazing, especially those who want to apply for PPE at Oxford, which seems to be the achievement of all achievements. Those who get in are the best of the best, at least in my DD mind. Now, Gina Colandangelo gained an Oxford PPE which means she must have been bloody talented. The only thing she will ever be remembered for was snugging the Health Minister in his office.
What a waste. Why? AIBU in thinking that there is still a cohort of women who work bloody hard to get into the most difficult jobs and then just sit on their achievements? And why do they do this?

@Possiblynotever

MH behaviour is totally unacceptable and he resigned. But here it seems that GC behaviour is acceptable and it is not. It is not acceptable to bed your boss. And there is NO WAY you have had a successful career if you go to bed with your boss. Some of you say that they did it so that they could be together- fine, but then why accept the 15k?

But no one has said her behaviour is acceptable, I don't know where you got that from. I think people are struggling to understand what her degree has got to do with anything. Are you saying if she'd studied something different, her employment history would more acceptable to you?

"Snug"

I started this thread as many of my DD friends want to do PPE at Oxford. Some of them are girls.
It is an expensive choice if you do not come from a privileged background.
The impression GC behaviour gives is that no matter the education you have had (and an Oxford PPE is a privileged education and all agreed with this), no matter the perceived achievements in your career which were based on this education, this woman decided to bed her boss in a job that granted her 15K a year for 15 days of work and some think she is the epitome of a successful career.
She is not.
Not because she committed adultery, which is none of my business. but because she showed poor work ethics. Someone wrote that she can shag whoever she wants - no she cannot if that person is her boss and she is getting paid for the job.

Also, I would like to add that no #metoo movement is credible if women with a very high education shag their bosses and get paid during that time as it will make it justifiable for a cleaning lady to shag the janitor who is in charge of her and for him to say that she can choose to shag whoever she wants while maybe, due to her lack of education, that is the only job she can get to pay for that day meal for her children.
Women need to start set an example.

I despise the morale and value standards of men in power, but we are giving them a good helping hand.

@Possiblynotever

I started this thread as many of my DD friends want to do PPE at Oxford. Some of them are girls. It is an expensive choice if you do not come from a privileged background. The impression GC behaviour gives is that no matter the education you have had (and an Oxford PPE is a privileged education and all agreed with this), no matter the perceived achievements in your career which were based on this education, this woman decided to bed her boss in a job that granted her 15K a year for 15 days of work and some think she is the epitome of a successful career. She is not. Not because she committed adultery, which is none of my business. but because she showed poor work ethics. Someone wrote that she can shag whoever she wants - no she cannot if that person is her boss and she is getting paid for the job.

Also, I would like to add that no #metoo movement is credible if women with a very high education shag their bosses and get paid during that time as it will make it justifiable for a cleaning lady to shag the janitor who is in charge of her and for him to say that she can choose to shag whoever she wants while maybe, due to her lack of education, that is the only job she can get to pay for that day meal for her children.
Women need to start set an example.

I despise the morale and value standards of men in power, but we are giving them a good helping hand.

OP you haven’t expressed yourself very well so far but I think I see what you’re saying. It gives the impression that she slept around to get the job.

For my state educated daughter from a deprived area, it's not an expensive choice. It's a whole lot cheaper than studying the same subject at York, Durham, Edinburgh....

I think you really do need to put an Oxford degree into perspective. It's not a golden ticket to a glorious career and it has no bearing on MH & Gina's mutual decision to have an affair with each other 20 years later. I doubt it they were discussing Logic or John Stuart Mill On Liberty whilst up against that office door.

Actually, as a NED, MH is accountable to Gina, not the other way around. Technically she is his boss.

@SadinOxon
Exactly this. I think that measuring success by the amount of money you gain and excusing sleeping around on the job is an unforgivable trait of our society

@Possiblynotever

I started this thread as many of my DD friends want to do PPE at Oxford. Some of them are girls. It is an expensive choice if you do not come from a privileged background. The impression GC behaviour gives is that no matter the education you have had (and an Oxford PPE is a privileged education and all agreed with this), no matter the perceived achievements in your career which were based on this education, this woman decided to bed her boss in a job that granted her 15K a year for 15 days of work and some think she is the epitome of a successful career. She is not. Not because she committed adultery, which is none of my business. but because she showed poor work ethics. Someone wrote that she can shag whoever she wants - no she cannot if that person is her boss and she is getting paid for the job.

Also, I would like to add that no #metoo movement is credible if women with a very high education shag their bosses and get paid during that time as it will make it justifiable for a cleaning lady to shag the janitor who is in charge of her and for him to say that she can choose to shag whoever she wants while maybe, due to her lack of education, that is the only job she can get to pay for that day meal for her children.
Women need to start set an example.

I despise the morale and value standards of men in power, but we are giving them a good helping hand.

If they are going to be credible PPE candidates they will need a better grasp of statistics than drawing conclusions from a sample of one, which is what you're doing.

Also, I would like to add that no #metoo movement is credible if women with a very high education shag their bosses and get paid during that time as it will make it justifiable for a cleaning lady to shag the janitor who is in charge of her and for him to say that she can choose to shag whoever she wants while maybe, due to her lack of education, that is the only job she can get to pay for that day meal for her children.
Women need to start set an example.

This is misogynistic bullshit.

Also, I would like to add that no #metoo movement is credible if women with a very high education shag their bosses and get paid during that time

The MeToo movement, let me remind you, was about women being sexually assaulted and raped, and disbelieved.

So you are saying that women who are raped are “not credible”, if other women are known to be having consensual sex?

What a despicable post. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

But of course you won’t be, you be back on here posting some slimy self-excusing shit in response to me, because you clearly have serious problems with misogyny.

So are you going to dissuade your dd from PPE at Oxford?

That’s just vile OP- have reported

I did PPE at Oxford from a state comp (looking at the press in the same years at those two although luckily seem to have avoided them) and dropped maths after GCSE, so maths wasn’t necessary back then certainly. I also work in an average salary part time, not too taxing role and have no ambition beyond that. I like to work to live and have absolutely no aspirations to either marry a rich man nor be wildly successful in any career. I have two kids, a partner and a complete average life. I don’t think it’s a waste at all, I enjoyed my degree.

I am mysoginistic because I have said that you should not shag your boss when you are paid £1000 a day of tax payer money?
I should be ashamed of myself for thinking this?
You are truly vile and low...I hope you are not a woman

@brokenhairband

I did PPE at Oxford from a state comp (looking at the press in the same years at those two although luckily seem to have avoided them) and dropped maths after GCSE, so maths wasn’t necessary back then certainly. I also work in an average salary part time, not too taxing role and have no ambition beyond that. I like to work to live and have absolutely no aspirations to either marry a rich man nor be wildly successful in any career. I have two kids, a partner and a complete average life. I don’t think it’s a waste at all, I enjoyed my degree.

Well done you!

@Possiblynotever

I am mysoginistic because I have said that you should not shag your boss when you are paid £1000 a day of tax payer money? I should be ashamed of myself for thinking this? You are truly vile and low...I hope you are not a woman

No, you're misogynistic because you're conflating a woman's success with her sexual morality. You're misogynistic suggesting any academic achievement or career success is nullified by her sex life not meeting a moral standard.

You're also failing to identify the multiplicity of women who have succeeded in various walks of life with or without an Oxford PPE degree, all of whom you could hold up as role models for your daughter.

Yes I am a woman and I am not doing any more of the labour of educating you.

@Palavah

I truly do not think I am making any confusion whatsoever.

I think GC choices are poor and that she cannot be a standard and she should stay far away from my tax money.

Her sex choices and motivations are her decision, being paid with taxpayers money for kissing her boss on the job surely does not set a standard. Plus, it is not that the great couple carried out such an outstanding job.

And frankly your arguments are such that you clearly are not in a position to " educate" anyone.

For goodness' sake, noone has suggested that she has set the standard.

You make no sense, I'm out.

YABU to conflate two totally different things.

My DH did PPE at Oxford- it was amazing for him and opened up so many opportunities, and he made extraordinary friends (he’s from a very normal background, state school etc.) Your DD should at least try.

But you’re wrong on the Gina point. I think what she and Hancock did to their spouses and children is abhorrent and hypocritical etc. However she has had a very successful career, carried on working, and I expect will continue to do something interesting. She’s not exactly a SAHM not using her PhD or anything!

All my friends (and I) returned to work after having DC, so I can’t relate to what you’re saying.

Gina and Matt H do seem to be in love. Just as bloody well- they’ll need it after the carnage they’ve wrought.

His poor wife, and her poor husband. Dreadful.

'Whatever love means' snorts HRH. Quite. Expediency, in some cases it seems. Trashing 2 families seems an excessive price for them all to pay for this aging Romeo and Juliet finding love.

All I can say is: I hope OP’s daughter has a better ability to string an argument together than her parent else she won’t be going anywhere near Oxford, PPE or otherwise, sorry and all. I hate this kind of “slut shaming” and find it deeply misogynistic.

@VestaTilley

YABU to conflate two totally different things.

My DH did PPE at Oxford- it was amazing for him and opened up so many opportunities, and he made extraordinary friends (he’s from a very normal background, state school etc.) Your DD should at least try.

But you’re wrong on the Gina point. I think what she and Hancock did to their spouses and children is abhorrent and hypocritical etc. However she has had a very successful career, carried on working, and I expect will continue to do something interesting. She’s not exactly a SAHM not using her PhD or anything!

All my friends (and I) returned to work after having DC, so I can’t relate to what you’re saying.

Gina and Matt H do seem to be in love. Just as bloody well- they’ll need it after the carnage they’ve wrought.

His poor wife, and her poor husband. Dreadful.

Thanks for your input which is very well outlined.
The discussion moved on from where it started and my DD has no intention to do PPE.
I agree with you that they are probably no having a fling and, on a personal level, I am very sorry for their families.

When I started this thread, I was unaware of their personal history and I still think it is not relevant to the point I want to make.
Even if they were both single, they should not use the office, and even less a government office, to manifest their feelings.
It is not professional and it is not what you are paid for.
The mix of work and affection in the workplace is tempting and reassuring but they are both old enough to know that it is not professional, especially when you are managing the biggest pandemic this country has seen and you are dealing with the feelings of people who have lost their loved ones.
There is a great article in the Times today on male politicians and their attitude to mix office and affection and female politicians who just get on with it and get the job done.
I understand that GC has an amazing education and made a lot of money out of her career, taking into account that she was paid 15K for 15 days of work.
Still, she has not made a great career, she is not a leader, someone to look as a standard. She is no role model ( nor is MH nor, in my opinion, BJ) although.
Your husband probably is, and that is where good education should lead you to, not taking your privileges for granted but setting a standard.

She is 43. She hasnt just graduated OP. Highly unlikely she was sitting about for 20 odd years before she volunteered with MH.

I'm a sahm. I have a stem degree. What a waste of my place at uni.

Except I worked as a senior Developer at one the biggest international companies in the world. I will go back to work once I'm less busy with SEN and kids.

She earnt her degree. She isnt just a mistress. Still think she is a bitch and he is a sleaze but that doesnt distract from her qualifications