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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gina and Oxford PPE

290 replies

Possiblynotever · 27/06/2021 10:48

My DD is in year 12. She is currently thinking about a History degree and her State school is (heavily) pushing her towards Oxbridge and a double honours. She is giving her best and her results are very good, so she probably will have the marks (although this is no guarantee). She chose a Maths A level and she is finding it hard - she reached an A but with a lot of sweating which in my mind is quite normal. She has decided not to do anything at Uni requiring further maths. Apparently, some of her classmates are amazing, especially those who want to apply for PPE at Oxford, which seems to be the achievement of all achievements. Those who get in are the best of the best, at least in my DD mind. Now, Gina Colandangelo gained an Oxford PPE which means she must have been bloody talented. The only thing she will ever be remembered for was snugging the Health Minister in his office.
What a waste. Why? AIBU in thinking that there is still a cohort of women who work bloody hard to get into the most difficult jobs and then just sit on their achievements? And why do they do this?

OP posts:
Blossomtoes · 29/06/2021 10:11

Still, she has not made a great career

She has.

she is not a leader, someone to look as a standard

Has she ever pretended to be? Nobody had even heard of her this time last week.

She is no role model

She is in career terms, morally not so much.

sassbott · 29/06/2021 10:19

What a horrible ranty post. OP I don’t think anyone anywhere thinks the antics of these two are vaguely defensible.

However to say that she hasn’t done well in her career? I disagree, she has. Technically she was MH’s advisor as someone bought into be a NED.
She didn’t just walk into that role with zero experience. Now the fact that they’ve muddied the waters on the ‘how and why’ is unfortunate, but that doesn’t erase her career previous to what has unfolded.

She’s not a leader? Well she hasn’t held herself up as being a leader, until this exploded I had never heard of her.

She’s no role model. Meh, who cares.
I work in the City and the amount of senior leaders who were playing away pre covid was astounding. It’s very commonplace in tech companies for sure.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 29/06/2021 14:43

@Possiblynotever
You seem to talk a lot about role modelling and behaviour of women. I'd probably spend a bit more time reflecting on the fact that the most prominent female role model your DD will have is you.

On this thread you've been incredibly rude, misogynistic and generally unpleasant to another woman who you don't know. You seem over invested in pointing out how she's not had a 'good' career and is "letting down women". Whilst for some reason not pointing out any of these flaws in men. You've conflicted the #metoo movement with consenting relationships (however unethical to the spouse) and seem to have no appreciation for her career.

So when your DD has issues with you or (worse) thinks that success for women is shitting on other woman, you can be content that you were the role model for this.

Arrowheart · 29/06/2021 14:52

@pastabest

I'm quite impressed you have managed to combine a stealth boast with a bitch/gossip about someone in the news AND a query about her mothering choices.

That's some serious mumsnetting skill level achieved.

Why are you so bothered by her? Her achievements (or lack of in your view Hmm) have absolutely no bearing on the choices available to your daughter whatsoever.

Agree!
Possiblynotever · 29/06/2021 15:07

@thatsjustwhatithink

Interesting post.
I did discuss it with teenage girls who happen to come from unprivileged backgrounds and they agree that if women in places of responsibility and in the public sector play it by the men rules, and it is acceptable in a "successful" career to shag your boss, then the issue of "consent" becomes flimsy, doesn't it? You do not reach your "successful" career without consent, you just need to pick the right one.
In a men world you play by the men rules...
Which is what you are doing.
Instead of condescendence, give those girls a helping hand and do not excuse any such behaviour, especially when it comes from a very privileged background.
Be the change you want to see.

OP posts:
Thatsjustwhatithink · 29/06/2021 16:15

@Possiblynotever

I think we have a different outlook, background and cultural upbringing. Whilst this is obviously an assessment, I'd say you haven't been bought up in the UK due to your sentence construction and use of English. This probably means our cultural views on women and misogyny are different.

With all due respect, I am the change I want to see. I didn't come from a wealthy background, but my parents (my mum more so) wanted more for us. I'm incredibly lucky to now be in a position of authority in the public service I'm in. But I've been bought up (and learnt) that you never put someone down to build yourself up. Especially other women. Especially in public service. It's crass. You role model the qualities you want to see in those you are fortunate enough to lead. But you also accept than people aren't perfect and make mistakes.

Your focus is all on the women's sexual and (your understanding of) moral behaviour and how you think that's needs to be regulated. You've focused on trying to pull apart a women's career because you don't like how's she's behaved sexually. It's telling you don't mention men. I can quite happily say that GC was a talented and successful woman. She had an affair. That doesn't undo any of her achievements. But in your mind, you've already decided that she must of got those achievements due to sex. Which is ludicrous. But it demonstrates how you view women.

You aren't the change I want to see. People are complex, messy and not perfect. Put any woman on a pedestal of sexual purity and career pefection and they'll always fall off, because people like you are there to bring them down. I'm hoping you gain some circumspection and maturity than currently showing and your DD gets to live a life where she doesn't have perform to misogynist expectations.

Possiblynotever · 29/06/2021 19:39

@thatsjustwhatithink

You are wrong; I have condemned men in several posts. Unfortunately, you did not take the time to read them. But the thread is long, and labelling is easier.
For me, most of the men in public office are stuck in the 80s, and there should be more women in power.

There is a great article in The Times today, an interview with Caroline Slocock. She worked in the civil service; here is what she has to say:

"Women, I think, are different. The women I know who’ve made it to the top in politics — and elsewhere — genuinely do have a single-minded focus on the task in hand, working long hours getting to grips with the detail, not just grabbing the headlines. As a civil service aide, I’ve seen Margaret Thatcher and Margaret Hodge close to. Both genuinely had a “laser-like focus on the job” that neither Boris Johnson nor Matt Hancock could dream of. “If you want something said, ask a man,” our first female prime minister said, “but if you want something done, ask a woman.”

You say I am judging based on her sexual behaviour - anyone can have an affair, and I would not dream of judging. But, as I said before, it is their business.

But, as the notable civil servant in the article remarks, "should the taxpayer be paying for his mistress to mark his own homework?"

I read your post, and you are trying hard to look humble, yet you have labelled me a misogynist, a culturally diverse, someone you are trying to educate.

For a senior civil servant is very poor indeed.

OP posts:
longwayoff · 29/06/2021 21:07

Is there a bored game in the Civil Service cupboard? Trivial Dispute perhaps.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 29/06/2021 21:09

@Possiblynotever

Like other posters, I give up OP. This isn't worth the time.

LittleBearPad · 29/06/2021 21:10

What an odd thread?

Bryonyshcmyony · 29/06/2021 21:12

Yes it's totally bizarre. I keep coming back to it wondering if it will suddenly make sense

Blossomtoes · 29/06/2021 21:17

I would not dream of judging. But, as I said before, it is their business

Yet you’ve spent an entire thread doing exactly that. If you think @Thatsjustwhatithink’s excellent post is poor, there’s frankly no hope for you. But I think we already knew that.

georgarina · 30/06/2021 05:43

Really confusing progression from OP. First the argument was that Gina had thrown her career away/had shown she wasn't ambitious by sleeping with MH.

Now it seems the issue is that she used sex to advance her career - the complete opposite.

Nothing about this thread makes sense.

Polkadots2021 · 30/06/2021 05:55

@PeterPickledPepper

Id guess she didn't think she'd get caught out. Nothing to do with academics. Except perhaps their behaviour betokens arrogance that may come from a background of privilege and not expecting any great scrutiny of ethics from underlings.
Wow first comment nailed it.
Possiblynotever · 01/07/2021 17:14

@Polkadots2021

Totally agree

OP posts:
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