To ask if you’ve noticed this? Race-related.

[OffRampHilton]

I grew up (not UK) in an area that was entirely populated by white people but that’s changed since I was a child (I’m 40) and I’ve moved away to live in a big city so my friends and colleagues now are very racially diverse. I know couples of all races/ethnicity from same-race/ethnicity to every mix you can think of.

Over the past couple of years, I’ve been really happy to see more diversity on tv, especially in terms of race. I grew up seeing nothing but white people on tv shows, unless it was a programme specifically about black or Asian families. I remember the fact that Coronation St was introducing their first non-white family was covered in the newspaper. The default was white people unless non-white people had a specific “reason” to be there- and that reason was pretty much always race-related.

I’m noticing lots more diversity, especially on ads. However, I still don’t see a lot of black or Asian families. I see mixed families where one parent (normally the mother, for some reason), is white, then a black parent (usually a dad) and two mixed children (normally a boy and a girl!). Great, it certainly represents a lot of families, but there seems to be a lack of depiction of families that are entirely black or entirely Asian or entirely anything other than white.

From paying attention to a few ad breaks tonight, I saw the following, in order of most common-

White families.
Mixed-race families.

I didn’t see many wholly non-white families.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Also, if I’ve used any clumsy wording in this, please don’t jump on me, but educate me instead.

@Tonkerbea exactly!
Racists in the U.K. are racist towards everyone not of the same skin colour.

Also just today I’ve seen 5 ads, 2 of which were exclusively black people (bus stop posters), all of which had at least one black person and no Asians at all.

There’s a black history month but no Asian history month. Despite everything the U.K has done to the countries of the commonwealth (indentured labour etc)...

White British makes up 44.9% of the London population, white makes up 59.8%. So no, they’re not a minority whatsoever

Surely it's business suicide to cancel 60% of your potential customer base?

In what way does having say a Jamaican or Indian family in an advert cancel out any customers though?

Jamaican woman advertises tampons, pregnancy tests, cystitis cream. Well it's going to work on me just the same right? It isn't a product linked to ones ethnicity, but to being a woman.

Indian family advertise Weetabix. Again, well if their 2 to likes it why wouldn't mine? Again, it isn't an ethnicity or cultural issue, it's Weetabix.

Am I missing something

I agree, I've been noticing this too. I think, as others hve said, it's to try to appeal to as many people as possible.

I've also noticed a rise in female same sex couples in advertising too, but hardly any male same sex couples. That way they tick the box for LGBT diversity but lesbian couples are much more "palatable" to the general public.

[quote LateAtTate]@woodhill as someone from a very religious country ‘adaptations’ don’t make religious people change their views. In fact it makes them more convinced that they’re doing the right thing. Which is why so many of my people have fled to Western countries. They wouldn’t be very happy to see that the same sort of outdated and bigoted thinking that drove them away was being accepted here in the name of ‘tolerance’.

Also ballet (like many forms of dance) is a sport. The clothes are not there for sexiness but because ballet involves a variety of athletic moves. If it’s poetry, clothes are adapted for ‘modesty’ and presumably the moves - it’s not ballet at all. Why not name it a general ‘modern dance’ instead of bastardising something very specific? Or teach one of the many folk dances involving already modest outfits and delicate hand movements?[/quote]
I love music so I find it hard to understand some of the girls not being able to enjoy something that is so intrinsic to Western life

@SleepingStandingUp

White British makes up 44.9% of the London population, white makes up 59.8%. So no, they’re not a minority whatsoever

Surely it's business suicide to cancel 60% of your potential customer base?

In what way does having say a Jamaican or Indian family in an advert cancel out any customers though?

Jamaican woman advertises tampons, pregnancy tests, cystitis cream. Well it's going to work on me just the same right? It isn't a product linked to ones ethnicity, but to being a woman.

Indian family advertise Weetabix. Again, well if their 2 to likes it why wouldn't mine? Again, it isn't an ethnicity or cultural issue, it's Weetabix.

Am I missing something

Given that such a large proportion of the population is white statistically they’d be going out of their way to cast a family of a fully completely different ethnicity. So it’s a conscious decision to do so. Would you be surprised that most adverts in China featured (gasp) Chinese people?

From a psychological point of view however - people have closer bonds to those who look just like them. By that logic every ad with multiple people should have several different ethnicities.

If an ‘all white’ ad is a problem then so is an ‘all black’ or ‘all Asian’. All of them are ‘not relatable’ for people not of the same colour so someone will always not relate according to this logic

If people are colour blind then have people of different ethnicities for every abs. So what if it’s a family. People are colour blind so as long as there are adults and children we will assume they’re a family, right? Even if they’re not the same colour!

I once had a client which was a major UK company. All campaign plans had to be signed off by senior leadership. Never once did they sign off black or Asian talent. They never said expressly why but the reason was obvious. This was about five years ago and from their ads think things may have changed. But insane that one racist can veto.

@mustlovegin

White British makes up 44.9% of the London population, white makes up 59.8%. So no, they’re not a minority whatsoever

Surely it's business suicide to cancel 60% of your potential customer base?

I get the feeling that marketing budgets are being appropriated by whoever currently controls advertising agencies to allow them to disseminate 'messages' for free.

Companies are either clueless and believe what they are being told regarding 'trends', or are complicit in all of this. It's not clear. But I certainly don't want to be lectured every time I see an ad, I would rather be told about the quality and features of the product, that's it

This makes you sound absolutely crazy.

Who do you think is ‘controlling’ advertising agencies and what ‘message’ do you think they’re trying to disseminate, against the interests of the clients?

In any event if all you need from an ad is to be told about the quality and features of a product I can’t understand why you simultaneously think it would be business ‘suicide’ if that information were delivered by someone who wasn’t white.

Black people only make up 3% of the uk population and are massively over represented in the media. There are more people from India and Pakistan living in the Uk for example.

@mustlovegin when our ruling political party is recognised as having an issue with Islamophobia, it strikes me as pretty clear that there's still an issue with it in the UK.

Given that such a large proportion of the population is white statistically they’d be going out of their way to cast a family of a fully completely different ethnicity well 4% Vs 20% of the population not being Chinese / White British is quite a difference. Looking for a black or Asian family hardly requires scouring the streets for hens teeth

From a psychological point of view however - people have closer bonds to those who look just like them. By that logic every ad with multiple people should have several different ethnicities. But also fat 40 year old women so I can be catered for and 50 yr old skinny men for DH. At some point you have to stop pandering to ignorant

If an ‘all white’ ad is a problem then so is an ‘all black’ or ‘all Asian’ neither is a problem. And if I can't identify with a woman pretending to have painful pee and selling cystitis meds then I deserve to have painful pee

People are colour blind so as long as there are adults and children we will assume they’re a family, right? Even if they’re not the same colour! Well that's not colourblind that a poor understanding of genetics. Or adoption rules.

I would disagree that ballet is a sport, it’s an art form. Classical ballet steps can and are often performed in clothes other than a leotard and tights.

Here is an advanced level dancer who performs wearing modest clothing.

www.pointemagazine.com/stephanie-kurlow-2640232549.html?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2

We've started to get more diverse advertising in Germany but its basically: incredibly thin and beautiful mixed race woman with big natural hair or rarely, devastatingly handsome black man with locks (and that's usually involving a bbq). No indians or asians. No families. Occasionally a light skinned child with big natural hair eating a lolly.

It upsets me. These people live here and pay taxes. Why can't they be represented? Where are the normal black people, God knows we have so many lumpy blonde people representing brands. Why can't we have lumpy black/ Asian people?

OP, YANBU, it pisses me right off.

@Notaschoolday

Black people only make up 3% of the uk population and are massively over represented in the media. There are more people from India and Pakistan living in the Uk for example.

How do you feel about the Tesco lady?

Yes even before inclusivity became a hot topic as a black person I have found that mixed race couples and children feature in adverts more so than just black or Asian families. I take this to mean that this is more acceptable for the audience watching.

Surely it's business suicide to cancel 60% of your potential customer base?

What does this mean? Are you suggesting that if a product is marketed by black actors then white people won't buy it as they will assume it is not relevant to them? To the extent that we feel 'cancelled'? Are we not capable of understanding how a product works if it is demonstrated or advertised by someone with a different colour skin?

@Backhills

What I find interesting and appaling in equal measure is that black families on TV almost always live white middle class lives.

They might look black but they are much more like the white middle classes than they are the black communities I know, in every other aspect.

That’s interesting.

I’ve definitely noticed that if a family depicted as poor, they’re usually white. It’s so odd.

Black men in dramas are typically shown as highly educated or in authoritarian roles- doctor or police officer/detective, most commonly.

@SleepingStandingUp

Given that such a large proportion of the population is white statistically they’d be going out of their way to cast a family of a fully completely different ethnicity well 4% Vs 20% of the population not being Chinese / White British is quite a difference. Looking for a black or Asian family hardly requires scouring the streets for hens teeth

From a psychological point of view however - people have closer bonds to those who look just like them. By that logic every ad with multiple people should have several different ethnicities. But also fat 40 year old women so I can be catered for and 50 yr old skinny men for DH. At some point you have to stop pandering to ignorant

If an ‘all white’ ad is a problem then so is an ‘all black’ or ‘all Asian’ neither is a problem. And if I can't identify with a woman pretending to have painful pee and selling cystitis meds then I deserve to have painful pee

People are colour blind so as long as there are adults and children we will assume they’re a family, right? Even if they’re not the same colour! Well that's not colourblind that a poor understanding of genetics. Or adoption rules.

Your logic is all over the place. In a majority white country the default is white - therefore if people were going for a ‘brand appealing to the most customers’ perspective they’d choose a white family. To choose a differently coloured family therefore needs some other reason. Namely, diversity. So that we can represent all people equally. However as you mentioned - if everyone was equal why does it make a difference whether it’s a black, white or purple family?

I therefore argue that the reason for having diverse people in media is because the first is true - that it gives people a sense of belonging to see themselves represented on screen + opportunities for models of every colour.

If this is true it follows that any representation over the statistical population sizes is over representation. White people are ‘over represented’. But so are blacks. Why is nobody calling this out?

Also your close mindedness in terms of family is showing. People can 100% be of different colours in a family. If they’re mixed race.. or adopted. So yes it’s impossible to believe that you wouldn’t notice the colour difference if it was a white or otherwise family.

It's such a minefield isn't it?!
Lots of people have pointed out you don't see much Asian representation on adverts. On TV generally I think you do now (although maybe more as presenters, documentaries, and in comedy, rather than in drama).

I am starting to notice in ads recently a few couples where the woman is black and the man white (rather than the reverse), darker-skinned black women than before, and some all black families. Also both gay and lesbian couples represented, getting mortgages, hiring a car etc.

The UK has become very self-conscious about everything to do with representation of race and ethnicity, (and now 'gender' yikes!).

Oh I read somewhere recently that the sports Hajib (Nike sell one) has been an absolute game-changer (pardon the pun) for Muslim girls and women taking part in sport 💪🏽💪🏼💪🏾

[quote Comefromaway]I would disagree that ballet is a sport, it’s an art form. Classical ballet steps can and are often performed in clothes other than a leotard and tights.

Here is an advanced level dancer who performs wearing modest clothing.

www.pointemagazine.com/stephanie-kurlow-2640232549.html?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2[/quote]

1. They’re not mutually exclusive. Something that required peak physical fitness to the level of a professional athlete but is also graceful is both. Even if not ‘officially’ a sport.

2. Those clothes while long sleeves are not very loose fitting. Very conservative people would still consider those immodest. They also consider lifting legs immodest and done to sexually entice men.

In any case nobody’s saying that you can’t adapt anything but that it has limits. ‘Culture and religion’ cover a lot of things like the acceptable (not eating certain foods) to the unacceptable (widow burning). It’s all about the balance. The whole burkini uproar was prejudiced because there’s nothing wrong with safe, covering all swimwear if that’s what people want. Also if people can’t eat certain foods for religious reasons adapting it is fine. However not allowing music crosses the line and presumably people who are that extreme also don’t believe in any immodest movements. So what part of ballet exact are they doing to do - only arabesques and the delicate footwork?

I’m white but from a mixed race Asian family, I think the main problem isn’t racism it’s the fact we are quite rightly so very diverse in the UK that if they advertise an item for a family who can get represented, in the UK we have :- Black (and several variations depending on heritage) , White , Asian (again various variations) Latino, and all the mixed races from those listed above and probably many others that I haven’t listed,

So if you want to advertise a mum, dad and kids playing happy families what would you do and who would you choose? One of each?

My family are from HK and there are never adverts that represent them even though there’s a sizable community of them in the UK, as a family we aren’t really offended we just understand you can’t relate to every race on one 15/30 second advert for washing powder 🤣

Also just to add - while all of this is probably just something you wonder about and read about in the papers - it is my lived experience. From a country where girls are arrested for immoral behaviour and people sent to concentration camps for being gay. I have absolutely no qualms about speaking out about such tendencies to extremism when I see them here, tolerance, whatever word you like to use can piss off. It doesn’t go both ways . And some things are just wrong. In our country we are fighting for the right to be free and people just accepting this ridiculous behaviour here doesn’t help us at all.

Sorry OP this isn’t related to your post 😂

I have noticed this too and it stinks.

How do you feel about the Tesco lady?

What the fuck you on about? Do you mean from an advert? I have no feelings about someone from Tesco.

I find it annoying that there are way more black people than Asians in tv adverts when in the UK Asians make up a greater proportion of the population. For me this suggests that the casting isn’t colour-blind - they’re subconscious (or consciously?) casting more black people because of BLM or because they’re actually reflecting an American population. See also Bridgerton! Where were all the Asians? Biggest ethnic minority in the UK. I think it annoys me because it makes it obvious that it’s not colour blind it’s actually cynical.

100% agree.

My DD works on TV as an extra. She's inundated with offers of work, and her agent told me that would be the case because of her ethnicity. But it is most definitely a case of having a 'token Asian' on most of these