She seems older for her age

[Justsawagecko]

My toddler Dd. She’s almost 3 but has crazy vocabulary..using words like ‘Absolutely’ ‘Broadcasting’ ‘Besides’ etc. She hears something and it just seems to stick in her mind, she knows what it means too. Ever since she was around 1.5, her language just took off and we’ve had normal conversations ever since. She crawled & walked fairly late, but just seems so attuned to things and like an older child in a toddlers body in many ways. It worries me for the future, is this normal?

She sounds much like DD1 at that age except She was bilingual too and was running around at 10 months. She was such a busy little soul. Shes 11 and in her last year of primary but academic she is not. Vocabulary is now pretty average. I'd say the late starters and more advanced tend to merge around age 5/6 ime ajd you wouldn't know then who was talking at 1. It didn't cross my mind to be concerned although it did mean that I was worried when dd2 came along and didn't speak OR walk for a significant length of time, she was 3 before we started getting sentences that made sense. I needn't have been worried though as by the time she started school her vocabulary was noticeably advanced and commented on by her first teacher. She's 8 now so a complex vocabulary is less noticeable/is normal but she still comes out with some beauties. Moral of that is its far too soon to tell.

@ByeClare It would have been 1997; it's annoying me now I can't remember what it was called. Only a couple of us sat it from my year.

Agreed that it's not a standalone thing though.

Sounds good, they all level out by school! My mum's friend's daughter said her bedroom was claustrophobic when she was 3!

[quote Justsawagecko]@Seeingadistance What other signs were there?[/quote]
Trying to cast my mind back to when he was that age.

His nursery said that they had concerns about him and suggested that we see about getting on the Speech and Language Therapy waiting list - which at that time was almost 2 years long. They didn't mention autism but did say that they noticed him "tracking" following the same route round the room and sometimes backwards. I asked my son about this and accepted his explanation which was that he was reversing into a siding - big Thomas the Tank Engine obsession - and he's an only child so I had nothing to compare with and was satisfied with the answer. After his diagnosis some other adults who knew my DS and work with children with autism, said that they weren't surprised and it was something they had long suspected - but didn't say anything to me at the time!

He was an early and non-stop talker - almost immediately using complex sentence structure, accurate grammar and extensive vocabulary. Late to crawl and didn't walk till he was about 18 months, at which point he stood up, started running and kept on running. No separation anxiety - when he ran away he didn't come back - I had to chase after him and bring him back.

What did slow him down was his need to have all the garden gates in our street closed. He couldn't walk past an open gate - or even one that was almost but not quite shut.

He was obsessed with spinning things - so the wheels of his bogey, his toy cars etc. He'd also line things up and they had to stay like that. He would also spin - he would lie on his side on the floor and spin round. I've seen one other child do that - also ASD. A hand flapper.

Lots of sensory processing issues. Very limited diet - was a nightmare to feed from the word go - breast refuser, difficult to bottle feed, difficult to move to solids etc. Dislike of loud noises.

He would hit his head off things - the floor, brick wall, shopping trolleys, me! Also he'd grab and squeeze me really hard - it hurt!

He knew the makes and models of every kind of car. Amazing memory for detail.

He was very small for his age and he would chat away to children who were the same size as him, but still too young to talk! He seemed oblivious to their silence and they often seemed fascinated by him.

I used to watch him at toddler groups and have a sense that he was somehow in his own invisible bubble. Subtly different from his peers in a way that became more obvious as they all got older.

Overall, a very active, alert, intelligent, confident, funny and charming wee boy - very quirky and as he grew older, increasingly aware that he didn't quite fit in. For him, the diagnosis was something of a relief as he then knew why he was "weird" - his words.

Early language skills, when coupled with other areas of developmental delay, can very much be an early sign of neurodivergence.

Can I just repeat that this is totally wrong. Early language skills are the total opposite of a red flag for neuro divergence. Early language skills show that the developing brain is processing language well.

EARLY READING without the comprehension to go with it could be a sign of neuro divergence. However READING is not LANGUAGE. It is merely reading symbols. It is not understanding language as communication. It is not using language as communication. Those children who read early are not using the words to communicate. They will more often than not - not understand what they are reading. This is hyperlexia.

Children with hyperlexia often have LANGUAGE DELAY. So they may read, but they may not understand a simple request such as ‘put on coat’ and only speak a few words in some cases.

So a child who is reading long words such as ‘amazing’ and ‘absolutely’ such as the OPs, but never using these in the appropriate way, could be hyperlexic.

A child who is USING the words ‘amazing’ and ‘absolutely’ in their appropriate context, is not hyperlexic, is not showing signs of neuro divergence, has not got red flags for autism.

It’s really important that this is clearly understood and no disinformation is spread on these boards.

Those are completely normal words for a three year old to know and use.

Children will copy what adult say , therefore if parents use a wide vocabulary so will the children.

Also remember that first children often spend a lot of time with adults and therefore will have adult conversations if they are allowed to.

Honestly everything you have said seems completely absolutely normal.

But obviously its natural to worry

@Bananasinpyjamas21 @Dishwashersaurous So reassuring to hear 🙏💐

@Justsawagecko Yes my DS is autistic and hyperlexic so I am pretty attuned to the signs - he’s wonderful. If you have any other developmental concerns - then do certainly chase them up - as others have said any developmental delay is worth checking - but you haven’t described anything ‘of concern’. Just enjoy it!

Why would it worry you? My 5 year old daughter is like this, my niece is 10 months younger than my daughter ( they are both in reception ) but my 5 year old daughter is very mature for her age ( something her teachers have also commented on ) she is also very bright and comes out and uses words for her age, a lot of children are like this. I just think my daughter is “ an old soul” she is very mature,kind and caring and acts older than she is which makes me feel old sometimes because she’s still my little baby. Why worry about it? Sounds more like showing off a bit.

Also talking about her behaviour saying she’s bored of the same age children etc, I have a son who is about to turn 4,he’s still very babyish and plays toys and young children where as I said my 5 year old is very mature and not so much into toys anymore, more into hair stuff and playing with kids make up and notebooks and pens and at 4 years old she was a lot more mature than my son is at just turning 4. Every child is different and I don’t think any of this should be concerning to you at all.

A child who is USING the words ‘amazing’ and ‘absolutely’ in their appropriate context, is not hyperlexic, is not showing signs of neuro divergence, has not got red flags for autism.

@Bananasinpyjamas21

I really don't think this is correct. Certainly you can't say that the child in your scenario doesn't have red flags for autism. That particular characteristic may not be a red flag in your view, but it doesn't mean there aren't other red flags.

Google and you'll find that official wisdom is that there can be a wide range in terms of vocabulary and communication in children with ASD. Some are non-verbal or have few words, others have very large vocabulary and can describe things in detail with very specific wording. The latter is not hyperlexia. It is still however a trait that many children with ASD have. The child's intelligence, social development, and where they are on the autistic spectrum are relevant factors.

Think about it, most of know the trope that autistic people usually have special interests; why can't language be one of their special interests? It certainly was for my DD.

My DD used big words correctly in speech at a young age. Not hyperlexic. Their articulateness was the reason given by CAMHS for not diagnosing her autistic during their first ASD assessment.Years later, a specialist team did. They did think that DD's early articulateness and level of articulateness was one of the signs and symptoms. Not the only one (obviously), but it contributed towards a picture. Many specialists say now that is too simplistic to assume that a large vocabulary, and being able to use it appropriately, means that a DC doesn't have any ASD-related communication issues.

For one thing, girls tend to be more articulate at an earlier age in general, and tend to show their ASD in different ways to boys. Which has led to experts having to re-look at the diagnostic criteria.

btw you may like to note that many people who are 'neurodivergent' object to that term, finding it rather offensive. They prefer the terms neurodiverse or neuro-different which are therefore used much more widely than 'neurodivergent'. I'm ND myself (not ASD) and don't mind the term, but I understand and respect why others do.

Oh dear the bragging. Be happy she is doing well.

Bless

Don't worry @Justsawagecko

as long as she doesn't run around using MN language:

"boils my piss" "cunt" "fuck" "cock fucker" etc then she will be fine

@ByeClare Being articulate is not a sign of autism. Your DD may well have been like this, however there is no evidence that it is a ‘sign’ as all it shows is that her brain was processing language very well.

Yes any developmental delay is worth following up. The OP has not described anything out of the normal range of development delay

However being good at language is not a red flag for anything and there is no reason to suggest this to the OP.

It also subscribes to the stereotype that autistic children are bright but quirky and articulate. This is a damaging stereotype for many who are minimally verbal. The vast majority of autistic people have significant language difficulties. One third have limited or no speech, it is not an ‘array’ it is a significant part of autism. Until the term ‘aspergers’ was done away with - and autism used instead - autism was only used for those with language delay (asperger’s was used for those without a language delay).

Btw you might not want to use the term ASD as many find it offensive to be described as having a disorder. ASC is more respectful as it describes autism as a condition rather than a disorder.

My 15yo was like this, she talked late, sprang straight into a love of words which she still has. She is doing grade 8 clarinet and saxophone, draws like a dream and is heading for all eights and nines at GCSE. So yes, your toddler may be super bright. Not sure why people have to be so nasty.
Incidentally DD is absolutely neurotypical and spends far too much time playing with friends on her laptop.

A thinly veiled brag post if ever ive seen one.

.

My brother was an ‘advanced’ baby/toddler. Think he crawled at 4 months and walked at 9 months, started talking really early too. I think my Mum was certain he was going to be a genius because he just seemed to get things really quickly. He doesn’t have any GCSE’s and works at McDonalds. Has a really clever girlfriend he’s been with since 13, she did biochemistry and uni and graduated with first class honours. Christ knows why she’s with him .

I was a lazy baby/toddler, I graduated with a first too. It’s anecdotal of course but being an ‘advanced’ toddler doesn’t mean anything.

[quote Justsawagecko]@AliceLivesHere Oh fuck off.[/quote]
OP I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't writing as some kind of stealth boast, that you were open to whatever came back etc but in some of your responses to people you have been very rude and humourless. The impression I get is of someone who takes themselves and being a parent VERY seriously. With the greatest of respect you need to lighten up, it sounds to me like you have a bright, engaged child, stop overthinking and problematising it.

I was like this... Spoke very early and loved language and books. I did well in English and now do a job that involves writing and communication.

My son has ASD, 2.5 and doesn't speak a word or want to....

It's just chance sometimes

DS is 18mo and just loves words and their meanings. He seems to collect them. He loves his numbers too and is really advanced but I think that’s down to ‘survival skills’ because when all the gc are together my dad gives my DN chocolates to share amongst them all. DS was getting fewer and couldn’t understand why & then started to count to them. He can only count to 6 though so DN can still take the rest

I really don't understand some of the nastiness on this site sometimes. It's mumsnet ffs, the name lends itself well to asking parenting advice.

You may want to keep an eye on her for giftedness. She does sound unusually self-driven, even for a toddler. Giftedness can sometimes include a lot of asynchronous development, which may explain your feeling that she seems a little less like the other kids in social development for eg.

No advice really, as it's such early days, and giftedness can co-exist with neurodiversity in the same person so right now there's no way to tell what you're dealing with. Just a little acknowledgement that yes, she does seem to be hearing the beat of her own drum in some way.

People are being very hard on the OP here.

She is now being rude after being barraged with people who are calling her a bragger and people who're trying to make her feel bad for asking a question because their kids can't speak. That isn't anyone's fault and certainty not the OP's.

She has a genuine question and is worried about her child, why would she be replying to everyone taking that piss like, 'haha, you are so funny'. This obviously isn't funny to her so stop being so rude.

@Dutch1e

I really don't understand some of the nastiness on this site sometimes. It's mumsnet ffs, the name lends itself well to asking parenting advice.

You may want to keep an eye on her for giftedness. She does sound unusually self-driven, even for a toddler. Giftedness can sometimes include a lot of asynchronous development, which may explain your feeling that she seems a little less like the other kids in social development for eg.

No advice really, as it's such early days, and giftedness can co-exist with neurodiversity in the same person so right now there's no way to tell what you're dealing with. Just a little acknowledgement that yes, she does seem to be hearing the beat of her own drum in some way.

Yes I’m dyslexic but learned how to read by myself without prompting somewhere between 2 and 3. Mum didn’t really know until my first day of nursery when the teacher told her. The problems came when learning how to write but I managed to figure them out until I was an adult when it all kind of crashed down suddenly coinciding with a breakdown - that’s when I was diagnosed with dyslexia.

This was me as a child. My GP asked my mum if she would like to participate in a psychology study into language development as I was so advanced with speech.
I went on to get good but averagely so grades at school, a 2:1 degree, and am in a fairly middle if the road career.
I'm still good at picking up language though and speak three foreign languages fluently with less effort than others seem to take.

Sounds like a child genius OP. Well done, you must be so excited for the future